And weaker pawns. It depends completely on the position as to whether the open file combined with weaker pawns is good or bad. One shouldn't get into that position if one's opponent can profitably oppose queens and you have to move away. In the position shown, black is obviously better since white has moved the queen thrice, only to end up passive. It's horrible for white.
London System
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X_PLAYER_J_X wrote:
BirdBrain wrote:
Not ideal, but isn't White temporarily solid?
I was trying to answer your post like 11 hours ago lol but my pc totally went down. However, I am back now HA HA.
In the London System white usually develops their bishop outside of the pawn chain.>>>>>
No, always, since that is what the London system consists of. c-bishop inside the pawn chain would be a Colle. Pawn c2-c4 is a queen's gambit.
Optimissed wrote:
X_PLAYER_J_X wrote:
BirdBrain wrote:
Not ideal, but isn't White temporarily solid?
I was trying to answer your post like 11 hours ago lol but my pc totally went down. However, I am back now HA HA.
In the London System white usually develops their bishop outside of the pawn chain.>>>>>
No, always, since that is what the London system consists of. c-bishop inside the pawn chain would be a Colle. Pawn c2-c4 is a queen's gambit.
My statement about the London System was correct.
The London System always has the bishop outside of the pawn chain on f4.
The Colle is a different line. That has the bishop inside the pawn chain.
But you wrote "usually", which doesn't mean "always".
BirdBrain wrote:
I wasn't saying that the Qc1 idea was good, I wanted to see some refutals of the idea. Furthermore, let's take it one step further then. What is your take on Qxb6? I agree that we are discussing subpar lines, but I think that is important as well, in case you are ever defending against the London and your opponent plays these ideas.
I play the Kings Indian Defense against the London. Which I think does OK.
However, I have had to learn some of these Qb6 lines becuase I play the London System with the white pieces from time to time. Use to play it alot more when I was a beginner.
Black usually gets queen side play in this line. The reason black plays c5 is to help him get more influence with an Open C file or for expansion on the queen side.
So any Qxb6 moves will only open up more files for the Black rooks which already want to get active on the queen side.
A couple of points here. I should have thought that the way to stop black's queenside ideas is for white to play dc, obviously preventing ...c4. Then, black can no longer oppose queens if the white one goes to b3, since white swaps and black gets doubled, isolated pawns. This is a thematic idea here.
It's interesting that Xplayer plays the KID against the London system. The London system was originally developed as an antidote to fianchetto systems so xplayer may be implying the the London system is no good in this respect. I have no idea whether this is correct or not.
Optimissed wrote:
A couple of points here. I should have thought that the way to stop black's queenside ideas is for white to play dc, obviously preventing ...c4. Then, black can no longer oppose queens if the white one goes to b3, since white swaps and black gets doubled, isolated pawns. This is a thematic idea here.
It's interesting that Xplayer plays the KID against the London system. The London system was originally developed as an antidote to fianchetto systems so xplayer may be implying the the London system is no good in this respect. I have no idea whether this is correct or not.
It seems counter productive to have a fianchetteo when their is a pawn on d4, c3, b2,e3
which is all dark squares. However, with that comes a cost. The cost is they can be probed.
Well, the idea of the London is very much to create a bulwark against the fianchettoed bishop. So you're implying that it isn't an effective bulwark?
BORING!!!!
I have played it maybe twice in 28 years of playing chess. I'm thinking of having a crack with it at 10 minute blitz, to find out what the pros and cons are for myself.
Ramona-Carbona wrote:
Nice one Gil! ty :)
She got me Spassky's autograph since I'd been quietly rooting for him in 1972 (mostly because I though Fischer had behaved like an asshole) but if I'd been as keen on chess then as I was a year or two later I'd have tried to wangle an introduction. 
Optimissed wrote:
Well, the idea of the London is very much to create a bulwark against the fianchettoed bishop. So you're implying that it isn't an effective bulwark?
Well generally white has a triangle formation and black has in recent years began to make a KID Triangle formation back lol which is pretty funny but it has happened.
The London System is solid. I don't think there will ever be a refutation to it. Its super solid. People say its boring but that is because they don't understand solid lines have more flexibility than other lines.
I'm somewhat uncomfortable with fianchetto formations. I like playing against them. Against the KID I use the Classical System with 9 Ne1.
<<I'm somewhat uncomfortable with fianchetto formations.>>
Bit of a stupid thing for me to say since my preferred defence to 1d4 is the Modern Benoni. But there the bishop isn't obstructed and I can attack on the Q-side.
Optimissed wrote:
I'm somewhat uncomfortable with fianchetto formations. I like playing against them. Against the KID I use the Classical System with 9 Ne1.
Yeah I love the fianchetteo lines maybe even to much HA HA.
It always makes me feel more safe with my king for some reason.
Ah it's very disappointing to find out that Optimissy can say stupid things :(
Hello, my dove.
I guess the downside of an immediate Qc1 is that you haven't forced the concession ...c4 and so after moves like ...Bf5 leading to about the same position Black has the extra option of opening the c-file at some point which could be a little dangerous with that bishop pointing at c2.
I wasn't saying that the Qc1 idea was good, I wanted to see some refutals of the idea. Furthermore, let's take it one step further then. What is your take on Qxb6? I agree that we are discussing subpar lines, but I think that is important as well, in case you are ever defending against the London and your opponent plays these ideas.
Are you talking to me Bird?
If you are than I will say. It usually opens the Rook file giving the side that takes an active rook.