Maroczy bind or switching to another variation of the Sicilian

Hi guys,

Before I start, I'll give a little background info. Before I knew about chess "theory" I used to play 1.e4 e5 as black. At one point in my life, when i found out theory actually existed, I decided to check it out. I've fuddled with different openings/gambits throughout the years.

Son that's been like 5 years now, and not so long ago, I decided to really go for an opening repertoire. I started working on the Archangel Variation of the Ruy Lopez. I liked it a lot, but White has so many options other than 2.Nf3 or 3.Bb5 (2.f4 2.Nc3 2.Bc4 3.Bc4 &c.) that I decided to look for something else. 

So, I started going thtough the French Defense, the Caro-Kann, the Sicilian, etc. The French and Caro Kann weren't really to my taste, but then I found the Hyper Accelerated Dragon. Anyhoo, I found the 'main' 5.Nc3 variation very pleasing, and I learnt that a lot. Thing is, the 5.c4 Maroczy bind has really been pissing me off, to say the least. I can find some early plans (Qa5, Rfc8 and Be6 to attack c4, etc.) but nothing on the long run. 

So, my question is this : does anyone have clear plans for Black in this 5.c4 line.

And if not, i would like to go for some other Sicilian variant. I looked at the Najdorf but I don't feel comfortable playing the Bg5 line. Also, I have tried the regular dragon but the gameplay isn't like the HAD at all (with a one-move d5 push). The opening i'm looking for shouldn't been too flexible (not a lot of variations) if possible, and I would prefer something dynamic even if it means being less solid. Maybe a 2...e6 sicilian ?

Thanks for reading ^^ 

You're never going to find a perfect opening that your opponent doesn't have resources against.  You also can't rely on a single line of an opening.

No, I know that. But I'm considering switching because I really have a problem with the maroczy bind. I'm asking if someone either has a clear plan for it, or if I can switch to another variation where there is no Maroczy. It's the only thing giving me trouble. I've with a 2350 FIDE at my club a couple of times, and when he switch to 5.c4 I really couldn't find a way to play without getting crushed on the d file. So i checked a couple of lines, but can't find any clear plan. (other than Qa5 Rfc8 Be6, and that's just a "starter" plan. I'd like something more long-term).

Edit : Joeydvivre, do you have a link to that video ? 

About a decade ago I played the accelerated dragon and if I recall correctly the Maroczy Bind isn't really avoidable and is usually countered with a hedgehog pawn system by black.  The hedgehog pawn stuff is seen in the English opening which also has a similar Maroczy Bind kind of thing with a pawn on c4 and the knight on c3.

Well I know I can't avoid it but many players still play 5.Nc3, probably hoping to transpose into a regular dragon sicilian. I have zero konwledge of the Hedgehog, but i'll surely give it a look ! Thanks.

I also play the Hyper Accelerated Dragon, and I looked up a way to play against the Maroczy Bind.  It ends up in a position where anything could happen.

Yeah i saw this line before, but "main" line maroczy goes 7.Be2 instead of Be3, which puts a stop to the Ng4 idea. So the line i've tried is 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 g6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nc6 5. c4 Nf6 6. Nc3 d6 7. Be2 Nxd4 8. Qxd4 Bg7 9. Qd1 O-O 10. Be3 Be6 11. b3 Qa5 12. Qd2 Rfc8.

But i'm not really sure where i'm supposed to go from there... 

Ok well  I think I found something that might be of interest.

Of course, both dxc5 and d5 are possible after Bg7 but lead to something other than the Maroczy bind, which I would be happy to go into, although dxc5 Qa5+ c3 Qxc5 is supposed to be white's best bet, but with a gameplay i like (black can sack a rook for a knight, a pawn, and more activity). 

In this line (c4), thanks to the move order, black has Qb6 at his disposal, facilitating the control of the dark squares and giving him more play. So you know, that's more lines to know (dxc5 and d5), but avoids the hassle of the regular Maroczy. I'm also a benko/benoni player so d5 is fine.

Hope that helps other HAD players out there.

I forgot to say that this is actually a "common" modern defense setup, which is reached by transposition.

@pfren : yeah that's the line I checked out that line and came up with :

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 g6 3. d4 Bg7 4. dxc5 Qa5+ 5. c3 Qxc5 6. Na3 Nf67. Nb5 O-O 8. Be3 Qc6 9. Nfd4 Qxe4 10. Nc7 Nd5 11. Nxa8 Nxe3 12. fxe3 Qxe3+ (Rodriguez Guerrero - Hoffman, 2006).

which seems very interesting. I'd probably rather play that than the regular Maroczy setup.

@ Siciliansmash : The e5 systems don't really appeal to me, the usual pawn left on d6 just looks horrendous (I know it's playable though, just doesn't look appetizing). Haven't played any of the e6 sicilians before, but i will give it a quick look to see if anything is to my liking.

Personally, i dislike playing the hedgehog pawn structure and the black side of marozy bind.  Maybe u could try 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Qb6!? 

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=1823

A strategically sound way to play against the Maroczy bind is attacking the pawn e4 by playing something like Nf6-h5 followed by f7-f5. By playing c2-c4 white gains space on the Queen's side of the board so there's reason to try a counter-attack on white's center from the other side.

I agree with Topfrox, I try something like this:

although I haven't had much opportunity to do so so far, most of my opponents don't seem to like the Maroczy.

joeydvivre, actually exf5 is the main move apparently, according to the chesstempo database. 

Finalunpurez, Qb6 lines look interesting, but i'd rather stick to the accelerated dragon first, see if I can find any solution to my problem. Although, i did, indeed, consider Qb6 in one of the Maroczy lines. 

 Waller, well that line indeed looks good, but, 8.Qd2 instead of Nc3 is a pain for black.

So I figured black is missing a tempo to achieve the setup you're talking about (because of the Nc3 thing). But it doesn't seem to work either :

After h4 black should play Nc6 but then game is still difficult to play, with white being better... So it seems h4 is kinda the killer in this line. So doesn't work. 

9.exf5 is not too bad a move I think, and is, as noted, the only move that has been played with anything approaching regularity. If not played then Black will probably chop on e4 and put his knight on f5, have two central pawns to white's none, and be no worse than in the other lines (Very generally speaking here of course!)

8.Qd2 is an interesting move and perhaps most accurate from White omitting Nc3. I have not looked at this before:

Omitting Nc6 is probably not good, I think it's a useful move to indroduce the idea of Nxd4 in a lot of lines. 7.h4 definitely doesn't look like the kind of thing I like to play as Black  a lot of options untouched for sure but the Nh6 is just really awkward in that line!

After 2...g6 which is too slow if White decides to play 3.Bc4 which is a more emphatic way for him/her to retin the initiative granted to him by virtue of having the first move.  3.d4 is slavishly or with a set of blinders on playing for a Sicilian which White is not forced to play, and after 3...cxd4 granting Black the lasting static advantage of a 2 vs. 1 pawn advantage in the center.

With 3.Bc4 White is maintaining the pressure on Black's position while simultaenously developing another piece and clearing the rank between the R and K for an eventual 0-0.

Finally, given the choice between the suboptimal 3.d4 and 3.Bc4 which is one of 2 or 3 candidate moves most players would select 3.Bc4 which can transpose into a Ponziani or a Sicilian Sozin or a couple of other openings.  

Maroczy Bind is one of the safest opening for White, he has only to wait and Black will suicide himself for some activity...

I would play it as black only against an opponent who's weak in rook endings.

I don't think that the modernish approach (Qb6, Qa5+) is long-lived: it's very easy to prepare against.

So if you are looking for a sicilian as a main defense i suggest you the Scheveningen, it's sound and black obtains a nice pawn structure.

pfren, yep, I also checked that line at some point, and play can go in a similar fashion after the delayed Morra (with 2.Nf3). I.e., in this line it is sometimes preferable to transpose into the Alapin you talked about. Bg4 before d6 is usually played, but i can't find any good chances for black after Bb5. Still, should at least hold a draw. 

The f5 idea is interesting, seems to give play, i'll try and give it a shot, but the king safety looks rather shaky. Pfren, do you have that line with the timely f2-f3 you talked about ?

Well, well... Most of this doesn't look very tempting for black...

Apparently, as i've seen, the Nh6 - f5 idea was used by spassky but it basically refuted nowadays. 

Black can try a Hedgehog-type setup, but i'm not sure how to play those, and i won't feel to comfortable in it i guess. 

Preparing Rac8 and d6, followed with Nc5. The game doesn't look particularily good for black but it's hard to see where white is going, i don't see many plans for him either. Houdini thinks black is tinily better.

Edit : white must be careful the c4 doesn't go under fire, with the pieces reorganized like Rc8 Qc7 Ba6.  

However, White can protect the c3 Knight via Rc1.

With a sharp but equal position. I quite like this idea.

I think i'll give the Ng4 Nxd4 Ne6 idea a shot, it seems very interesting, even though i'll still try out delaying cxd5, see how that line goes (remember, either 4.dxc5 Qa5+ c3 Qxc5 Na3, or 4.c4 where black has the additional possibility of Qb6). 

Interesting this.

In IM pfren's diagram, it seems the extra moves 6...d6 and 7.Nc3 have been inserted. On the surface it doesn't seem like this makes any difference and White should just play 7.f3 upon seeing 6...Nh6. But:

Maybe this isn't the best line, but a well prepared player may be able to get something out of it!

Ne6 lines look worth knowing as well and are probably more good. Certainly Black can hope to contest a good game from there.

EDIT: sorry mixed my lines, the Veresov game was after 7...0-0, which seems playable. 7...f5 is also alright but looks a bit more sketchy, maybe after 8.Nxc6 dxc6 is best. Apologies to those who saw my unedited post which was a little confused!

echecs06,  I'm not familiar with the name, but (after googling) I guess it's the same thing as the Gurgenidze variation ? If so, yeah, it's one of the main lines.  Also, as the thread is going, i'm starting to find solutions against the bind, so that might be alright after all ^^. Et merci !

pfren, The Qb6 line looks interesting. Not really sure it's riskless though, probably wouldn't play. Or the whole f5 system for that matter. The other variations I had considered before starting the thread were :

The position is equal and black should play for h5. Still quite hard to play though. 

The other line was by using a slightly different move order at the start, and has been tried by leading GMs quite recently : 

With a slight edge for white. Quite unpleasant to face as black anyway.

I still like the Ne6 line a little better, even if white defends the c3 knight via Rc1.