Meeting the sicilian?

Hi guys.

I am an e4 player as white (since recently), and I generally aim my e4 to reach the ruy lopez, or any transposition to d4-Nf6 games. As I don't have much time devoted to chess I started to answer the sicilian with a king's indian attack setup with random success depending on the move orders (as usual). However the more I play it and the less I like to use a "black" system as white, because I just don't convert my extra tempo as white into any king of advantage in the middlegame. To put it more simply, I just don't get enough with a KIA vs the sicilian lovers.

As already said, I don't have much time to study openings which have too much theory. Which means that as I already play the ruy lopez (which is quite time consuming given how it is a rich opening) I can't study the sicilian just to answer it (as I play 1. e4 g6! as black), because I will need to study the najdorf, dragon, sheveningen just to play against someone who will know any of these three better than me.

My question is quite simple: what can I do as black to avoid the sicilian main lines AND retain an advantage (any form of an advantage). Please note that I'm not unfamiliar with the sicilian systems, as I play the benoni as black which sometimes transpose into wierd things close to sicilian systems, and which are the positions in which I score the most wins. The only reason why I don't want to accept the sicilian is the fact that I do'nt want to read 15 books only to get outplayed by the latest novelties every 3 games because players read 25 books a month on their favorite opening!

I have "heard" of 1.e4 c5 2.d4 cd 3.c3 as a good choice for white, but is it true? I read somewhere that sicilian players often feared this, but is it really true?

Does 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 X 3.d4 cd 4.c3 offer better or worse chances? I think that it depends on X mostly, but even?

What about the rossolimo variation (1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 !?)? It looks similar to the ruy lopez that I already play, however I never play the exchange variation, and here after a6 I hardly have another choice than Bxc6. That's the reason why I don't go for it for the moment, but if it shows up to be a good choice as white then I will change my mind.

And finally: do you have any suggestion? I'm not really difficult with openings, I can play both very tactically oriented or positionnally oriented positions, all I need is play. the only thing I don't like is "boring positions", when one player has a a few play and the other one has nothing except to defend and wait for the first one to mess up his initiative.

And yes, I know, just playing d4 cd Nxd4 is the best, but I won't!

thank you :)

DoigteurFou

the positions you get in the open sicilian when you forget theory some places is still at least as good for you as the antisicilians when you remember the moves perfectly. on the other hand if you get a reasonable understanding of the english attack of the open sicilian you will be a dangerous guy

Just started investing time learning to play vs. the Sicilian soundly and on another thread, the recommendation I got was to play the Alapin/c3 Sicilian.

Relatively low on theory, ideas pretty simple and if you've already gotten comfortable playing with an IQP with the standard attacking ideas, the c3 Sicilian will fit rather nicely in your repertoire.

Been having a fairly decent time with it ... you might want to give it a look.

The gambit line you mentioned is the Morra ... a lot of fun and helps practice your tactics. Though I've noticed that this is  heavily booked up by stronger players who do a great job punishing the gambit .... so you might rather learn a system that you won't have to completely abandon as you get better. 

c3 sicilian and smith morra gambit

If you look for a bit more fun, you can always try 1.e4-c5 2.b4!?

I know I know, it looks horrible but it does have some good points:

- your opponent won't know it: you can play chess right at the beginning

- you will either scare your opponent, or he will become overconfident; in both cases you have a psychological advantage

- AND you have some chess compensation: you will be superior in the center, gain some long term spatial advantage, and you often end up with a past d pawn... This is definitely worth that lame b pawn ^^

That's a bit fast, maybe, here:

1.e4-c5

2.b4-c*b4

3.a3-d5

4.e*d5-Q*d5

5.Nf3 or Bb2

Followed probably by c3 and d4... Frankly I would not call it "better" for black, just "up a pawn", and that doesn't mean a lot

cheers :)

ah but we're far from the endgame, here: black has to find a way (and the time) to actually use his pawn. Not that easy, I think.

Plus, there's no reason why we should end up with a king+pawn endgame, just suppose (if we ever go to endgame at all) that each side has a rook left, you won't win that easily with just one more pawn.

Well that obviously depends on what you are looking for. You don't play that gambit if you hope to win in the endgame (which as you pointed out should be pretty exhausting).

The point of b4 is to retain more central influence, to get more control on the attacking lines. I often end up with a bishop on d3, knight on f3, queen on d1, ready for a brutal attack if the occasion arises. Black will have to lose even more time making sure that castling is secure, allowing me to build a king-side attack.

An other way of playing it is to try and crush the center: with moves like c4, e4, d4, f4, then exchanging some pawns to get a past one, and pushing until your opponent has to give you something back.

Spielmann won some fine games against strong players from his time, with 2.b4, and material was definitely not the issue in those games.

They don't lose all the time, do they? But you are right, I'm not defending a "good" opening (classical open sicilian are far more sound). I think it is rather a matter of style of play, and that's how I choose my openings.

I like playing gambits more or less secure, because what I hate in chess are draws: with a pawn down it always comes to "win or lose", which helps me focus on the game while my opponents often feel forced to prove that I played a "bad" opening. 

Also, at my rating (below 2000), unusual openings often increase dramatically the rate of mistakes/weak moves from my opponent, which can be quite useful. 

Of course if you don't believe in that kind of "advantage", there is no reason you should go for the risky (but interesting anyway) 2.b4!?

Okay, I think I will give back a try to what I did a loooong time ago when I was still a club player: e4 f4 Nf3 GO GO AGGRESSION

I'll see later, thank you guys for your answers

Instead of the KIA vs. Sicilian, you may want to try the Closed Sicilian or Grand Prix Attack (with a move 2 Nc3).

However, I have to agree with Estragon, the road to better understanding lies through the main lines of the Open Sicilian.

I tried the Bb5 lines for a long while, but if Black plays 2... g6 or e6 or a6, you'll need a Plan B.

As for the closed sicilian, I like to play against it as black, but not as white. About the grand prix attack, it seems exactly like what I want, however the question is simple: is it a good opening? (I separate them in the "closed sicilian" catagory since they lead to dynamically totally different type of games)

According the game explorer I looked at it seems quite bad! My idea to try out directly with f4 is bad as I already know, but I was only using that waiting for a real weapon.

the advantage in the grand prix resides in the fact that white has a clear plan for attacking. also, do the bb5 not the bc4 grand prix.

the delayed wing gambit (4. b4) works better than the wing gambit, when Black plays 3...d6, because then it will take another tempo to play the thematic ...d5.

To answer the question, I hate those main theory Sicilian lines, and therefore you can try the following:

• Rossolimo 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 Bb5 - and you´ve got your Ruy Lopez you were after!
• Moscow 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bb5+ Bd7 and now an option I play - sure it´s bad - 4.Bx Nx 5.c4?! with gaining space in the center.
• Grandprix attack, as mentioned before, be aggressive: 1.e4 c5 2.f4?! Nc6 3.Nf3
• Problems you´ve got in the first two lines: black could play a Scheveninger, or a Hyperacc. dragon with 2...e6/2...g6. Now it ain´t be a good idea to play 3.Bb5, however you could try 3.c3, or even 3.g3
• Problem you could meet in the 3rd line: black is playing aggressive as well and plays 2...d5. This are interesting lines with 3.ex and 4.Nc3, as white you have to develop quick here.

Love the topic though, lots of interesting ideas!

When I play the main lines, I like to confuse my opponents a little bit with a slightly different move order:

1.e4-c5

2.d4-c*d4

3.Nf3

No intention of playing any gambit here: we come back to the main lines of the open sicilians. But amazingly this tends to disturb my opponents in blitz so much that they don't play their very best sicilians. I LOVE to play with my opponent's nerves ^^

I've always play 1.e4 as white, here's my experience facing the Sicilian.

I started out playing the Smith Morra/c3 lines, with good results, tons of easy wins as white, and not just against lower rated players. Every now and then I'd play someone that knows what they are doing and have to fight for a draw.

So I switch to the open Sicilian, I spent about a year studying it and I'd say I have a decent understanding of about half of the variations. If you want to play the open Sicilian and be successful your going to have to study  a lot. I found my winning percent went down when I switched just because I'd get lost in theory.

So I'm back to the smith morra for now, my advice is play an anti-Sicilian opening like Bb5 lines, or the closed/grand prix, the smith-morra theoretically gives black an edge so I wouldn't recommend that.

That way you can only confuse yourself, say after 3...a6. Now you either have to gambit something, or allow Black instant equality after 4.Nxd4 e5 (or 4...Nf6 5.Nc3 e5).

The Grand Prix is quite easy to learn. I myself play the sicillian and the Grand Prix does fairly well against me if they know what they're doing, but I can normally defend it quite well as they won't play it perfect. It's quite a good opening, you'll learn quite a bit from Gawain Jones' starting out guide.

I just don't play the grand-prix because of these d5 line(which i play as black).