I have only mentioned against the London, not the others you mentioned.
In the London System specifically, White's Bishop ends up being horrifically passive. See below:
Modern defence
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Rob3rtJamesFischer wrote:
I agree with ThrillerFan when facing kingside fianchettoes the London is quite bad specially when you can kick them with d6-e5.
I like the endgame for black because of what ThrillerFan said, White's bishop is dead. I also like the quick kingside expansion possibilities Black has in this position. I would love to get g5-f5 in.
Still, as ThrillerFan said, this is not a magical refutation and in fact some quick analysis I made on the position show that it is not all roses for Black.
And I dont think you have to be a 2500 to play Bg3, I am nowhere near that and it is the most logical move, what do you get by releasing the tension? Just a worse endgame.
I think the same goes around for Black, if he plays e4 firstly his bishops is now hitting a rock on d4 which can't be attacked with c5 as the knight is on c6, secondly I think White will have fun after Ne2-c4-Nc3.
You say that 6.Bg3 makes sense to you. You are the first non-GM aside from myself that I have ever heard say that.
You seem to imply that it's Bg3 or trade pawns. I never said that all lower players exchange on e5, but those that don't, for the most part, go to h2, not g3. Everyone under 2500 always wants to tuck that boy away at h2. Even 6.Bh2 is not good in this line.
You also speak about White getting in e4 and Blocking Black's Bishops. Not true! Black is now out to open the long diagonal. Once Black decides whether to advance the Kingside or if he leaves the wall there and attack in the center and Queenside, Black will determine whether or not to move the h8-rook to e8 or d8, and then play ...Bf8, and relocate the Bishop classically. A non-issue for Black!
Also, Black has to merely move the c6-knight to move the c-pawn. White has far more work to get his Bishop out!
Black is better, just not winning outright.
Rob3rtJamesFischer wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:
Rob3rtJamesFischer wrote:
I agree with ThrillerFan when facing kingside fianchettoes the London is quite bad specially when you can kick them with d6-e5.
I like the endgame for black because of what ThrillerFan said, White's bishop is dead. I also like the quick kingside expansion possibilities Black has in this position. I would love to get g5-f5 in.
Still, as ThrillerFan said, this is not a magical refutation and in fact some quick analysis I made on the position show that it is not all roses for Black.
And I dont think you have to be a 2500 to play Bg3, I am nowhere near that and it is the most logical move, what do you get by releasing the tension? Just a worse endgame.
I think the same goes around for Black, if he plays e4 firstly his bishops is now hitting a rock on d4 which can't be attacked with c5 as the knight is on c6, secondly I think White will have fun after Ne2-c4-Nc3.
You say that 6.Bg3 makes sense to you. You are the first non-GM aside from myself that I have ever heard say that.
You seem to imply that it's Bg3 or trade pawns. I never said that all lower players exchange on e5, but those that don't, for the most part, go to h2, not g3. Everyone under 2500 always wants to tuck that boy away at h2. Even 6.Bh2 is not good in this line.
You also speak about White getting in e4 and Blocking Black's Bishops. Not true! Black is now out to open the long diagonal. Once Black decides whether to advance the Kingside or if he leaves the wall there and attack in the center and Queenside, Black will determine whether or not to move the h8-rook to e8 or d8, and then play ...Bf8, and relocate the Bishop classically. A non-issue for Black!
Also, Black has to merely move the c6-knight to move the c-pawn. White has far more work to get his Bishop out!
Black is better, just not winning outright.
You misread there. I said Black playing e4 after Bg3. I think White is better as Black would have to lose a tempo removing the misplaced knight to e7 to attack White's rock that is blocking the bishop on d4.
Meanwhile after 6.Bg3 e4 7.Nd2 d5 8.c4 I think White has an easier time.
And just now I think I forgot a way better option. 6.Bg3 e4?! 7.Nd2 f5!
Still, I would wonder who would not play 2.e4 against a Modern?
Why would you play 6...e4 if 6.Bg3? I'd continue to develop, leave the tension. Leave the pawn there and let the Bishop bit on granite. I'd be inclined to push e4 only if White plays f4.
dakadstell wrote:
Seeking insight and clarification... Have read and heard that the modern/robatsch defence is superb versus the common d4 club openings like the Colle, London, Trompowsky, Torre, etc. can someone explain in a concise manner the reason for this?
Sounds like me. https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/london-system-scrubs?page=5 post #90
Seeking insight and clarification... Have read and heard that the modern/robatsch defence is superb versus the common d4 club openings like the Colle, London, Trompowsky, Torre, etc. can someone explain in a concise manner the reason for this?