My thoughts on the colle system(zukertort variation).

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Ertanwastaken

I recently learned about the colle system and i decided to put it to use. my opinions on it are. u should use it if ur a pretty passive-agressive player. it is very passive but in the end it has some amazing gambits u can do with the bishops. i like it because it is a very passive and defensive opening which leads to attacks on the kingside. some players who just wanna go agro mode i dont recommend this i would recommend something like the scotch gambit. recommended if u wanna have a peaceful round of chess.

Toviya

I’m not sure I agree that it is passive. It can lead to a raging battle for checkmate on black’s king side.

Ertanwastaken
Toviya wrote:

I’m not sure I agree that it is passive. It can lead to a raging battle for checkmate on black’s king side.

That is very true because it can lead to many checkmate patterns. but if ur opponent plays right it will be  a very passive game

Gibbilo
As long as you play it in the appropriate context (usually when black plays e6 and locks in his light squared bishop). It’s great and also fun.
ThrillerFan
Gibbilo wrote:
As long as you play it in the appropriate context (usually when black plays e6 and locks in his light squared bishop). It’s great and also fun.

 

Exactly!  It is hot garbage if you actually try to play it against what is actually known as the Anti-Colle.

1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3 and now:

3...e6 4.Bd3 c5 and 5.c3 or 5.b3

3...Bg4 or 3...Bf5 and White's only good move is 4.c4.  4.Bd3 or 4.c3 are hot garbage and White is even slightly worse!

KnightChecked

As Beth Harmon would say: "Why play this, when you can play the Queen's Gambit?" tongue.png

Though on a serious note, I think your "passive/defense" description applies a bit more to the Kotanowski variation of the Colle. The Zuckertort is often played in a more aggressive manner.

Uhohspaghettio1

If anything the Queen's Gambit is easier to understand. There's my isolated pawn to attack, there's my minority attack, there's my Carlsbad structure, there's my avoiding a kingside attack. I struggle to see the point of the Zuckertort/Colle systems - you're going to have to start playing at some point, why not from the start. 

KnightChecked
Uhohspaghettio1 wrote:

If anything the Queen's Gambit is easier to understand. There's my isolated pawn to attack, there's my minority attack, there's my Carlsbad structure, there's my avoiding a kingside attack. I struggle to see the point of the Zuckertort/Colle systems - you're going to have to start playing at some point, why not from the start. 

Yeah, the pawn structures in the Queen's Gambit seem a bit more natural.

In the Colle-Zuckertort, White often keeps his pawn on c2, and doesn't advance it at all (which would feel instinctively "wrong" to a Queen's Gambit player).

gik-tally

so what line would y'all suggest a tactical/gambiteer player play against 1.Nf3?

I've had terrible results stonewalling and want to try and learn a variation, preferably OPEN, but looking at the database, the zukertort seems to be winning in EVERY line! there isn't a single variation where black gets an early advantage, and it looks like ultimately, black just can't punish this system

chessterd5

against 1.Nf3 I just play Nf6 and go where the transposition leads. don't commit to a pawn center till white does. psychologically you will figure out what type of player they are by the variations they chose.

gik-tally

no I won't. I just look for targets. that's how i play. if it comes down to positional "figure it out", I won't and I'll continue to have a losing record against 1.Nf3. all i know is lame stonewall.

I don't know if ...Nf6 is right either as it's an indian move and i'm not going to fianchetto anything ever

chessterd5

it's not just an Indian move. if 2.e4, 99% of all 1.e4 defenses are available. if 2.d4, you have d5 or maybe e5 for some type of Englund gambit. which i think you play? if 2.c4, you have c5 for a symmetrical English.

chessterd5

or even 2.c4, e5 for a reverse Sicilian.

PromisingPawns

Better than london Against d5 (just fax)

gik-tally
chessterd5 wrote:

it's not just an Indian move. if 2.e4, 99% of all 1.e4 defenses are available. if 2.d4, you have d5 or maybe e5 for some type of Englund gambit. which i think you play? if 2.c4, you have c5 for a symmetrical English.

yes, I play and love the hartlaub charlick, but looked into trying to transpose english to the albin as i would the charlick after 2.c4 if i could transpose it to a hartlaub charlick, i'd love it, but the pawn on c4 does a lot to discourage ...0-0-0 based plans, the root of the charlick