My way of choosing and learning an opening repertoire.

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McDirtalot_Inactive

Hello chess folks,

With so many different openings to choose from, it can be difficult and confusing for the average novice chess player to find and learn an appropriate opening.

I know my method is not perfect by any means and if anyone has any ideas on how to improve it, the advice would be greatly appreciated!

The way I am learning openings now is by putting my games one by one into an engine, in this case, fritz 15 using stockfish 8 and the "let's check feature". I check each of my opening moves individually and when I stray from the main line,  the computer will find the recommended move, I then put the move into "chess position trainer" and that moves becomes part the repertoire.

I have found both advantage and disadvantage to the method.

Pro -  And I think this is a big pro- The lines that get played against you most naturally get developed much quicker than more unpopular lines. for instance, at my level, the Sicilian does not get played very often in live chess, so you don't learn it until you improve and people start playing against you. You don’t waste time in learning repertoire that you will never use.

Con – It can be very hard understanding the ideas behind what the computer recommends.

At least with this method, you don’t waste time hours deciding then learning repertoire that you will seldom use.

Cherub_Enjel

I think the con here far outweighs the pro. 

McDirtalot_Inactive
Cherub_Enjel wrote:

I think the con here far outweighs the pro. 

 

"Con – It can be very hard understanding the ideas behind what the computer recommends."

although not impossible........with resources like youtube and the internet.

SuirenBoid

Ditch the engines!! Buy a good book and live with it! Positional Opening Repertoire by John Watson might be a good place to start, or My First Opening Repertoire from New in Chess. As Black, perhaps something like Rock Solid Opening Repertoire for Black by Eingorn, Chess Openings for Black Explained, I'd recommend the Kaufmann book as a one book fits all solution but it might be overwhelming at first, still it could become your opening bible and the lines are sound

swarminglocusts

 An engine can help, but they cannot teach you how people play. The two are different. It is good to find lines that have "play" or in other words some creativity left in them for both sides. Then you know you can eek out a win somehow. Knowing the basics and strategy can help take your game to the next level. Bruce pandolfini's beginner book "chess weapons" I believe. Watching the pro's and commentary.

 

I like your idea of looking at games for the advantage points. It can be good to go on to a database online and watch a game with your desired opening and setup of lines. Take note of who won and how they won, take note of who built up pressure and who played defense for a while. Then watch another game. Who won and why? Then find commonalities in the opening, what tools they are using, and how they are defending. I hope your journey goes well.  

DrFrank124c

When I lose a game I analyze it on Lucas Chess. That GUI comes with many engines so you can choose the one you like. A neat feature of Lucas Chess is the graph that shows you when your game has begun to go bad. I look at that point first then go back and check out the opening and go on from there. If I don't understand something I can look through the variations that are provided. If I still don't understand something I can look through the videos on YouTube that might explain the points that I am missing. 

MrDodgy

You're on the right track but there are a couple of issues with your method.  It might seem like a good idea to only study the lines you're actually getting on the board but there's a danger of drifting into a difficult position where you simply have no idea what to do and you can lose instantly.  Some of the most dangerous moves aren't the strongest, objectively, so the engine won't point them out to you.  You're also at the whim of fairly weak players in what you'll actually study - there's no reason to be in this position.  As a 1. e5 player, I rarely face the Kings Gambit.  However, when I do, I am glad I spent some time learning a line against it as it would be very tough to face unprepared.

 

You can pretty much follow your plan with an opening book, you just put each line into a chess position trainer and practice them.  This is a more thorough and systematic way to work through your openings and in the longterm it will reap better results.  It's a lot of work but there's no reason to rush it.

IpswichMatt

You can have the "pro" of your approach without the "con". Get a repertoire book on your opening and use that as a reference, rather than relying on the engine or Fritz's opening book. Then when you add your move to Chess Position Trainer you can write a summary of the thinking behind the move and can also add a reference to the page in the book that talks about it. Use Fritz as a last resort when your opponent has gone out of the book, and you cannot work out how to deal with his move.

I have seen your idea of adding to your repertoire iteratively recommended before, it makes a lot of sense.

ThrillerFan
McDirtalot wrote:

Hello chess folks,

With so many different openings to choose from, it can be difficult and confusing for the average novice chess player to find and learn an appropriate opening.

I know my method is not perfect by any means and if anyone has any ideas on how to improve it, the advice would be greatly appreciated!

The way I am learning openings now is by putting my games one by one into an engine, in this case, fritz 15 using stockfish 8 and the "let's check feature". I check each of my opening moves individually and when I stray from the main line,  the computer will find the recommended move, I then put the move into "chess position trainer" and that moves becomes part the repertoire.

I have found both advantage and disadvantage to the method.

Pro -  And I think this is a big pro- The lines that get played against you most naturally get developed much quicker than more unpopular lines. for instance, at my level, the Sicilian does not get played very often in live chess, so you don't learn it until you improve and people start playing against you. You don’t waste time in learning repertoire that you will never use.

Con – It can be very hard understanding the ideas behind what the computer recommends.

At least with this method, you don’t waste time hours deciding then learning repertoire that you will seldom use.

 

Completely the wrong approach.

 

First off, at the lower level, you should be worrying about Tactics, Strategy, and Endgames, not Opening Theory.  Stick with Opening Concepts.  Control the Center.  Develop minor pieces.  Get Castled.  Don't throw the Queen out to the wind too early.  Etc Etc.

 

Once you are over 1600, maybe then worry about openings.  Also, don't just pick some random opening.  Look at what you have been playing.  Back in 1995, I played a bunch of blitz games back in college.  I knew no openings.  After a while, I asked if what I was playing had a name, if it was an actual opening.  Turns out it did!  I established the opening I played against 1.e4 like a baby establishes whether they are left handed or right handed.  Doing what comes naturally to your own brain rather than saying "I'm going to learn the, uhm, PHILIDOR!"

 

I started playing tournaments over the board regularly in 1997.  From 1997 to 2007, 90% of my games as Black against e4 were with the defense that came to me naturally, and I studied it for years on end.  In the last 10 years, I have played many other defenses to e4, but still play said opening at times, just not exclusively.  Now I play "it" along with the Caro-Kann and 1...e5 against 1.e4.

 

What is "it" you say?  That would be the French Defense!  I was playing 1...e6 against 1.e4, idea being to be able to play d5 and contest the undefended pawn.  I didn't like the reverse of it, 1.d4 d6, not because White can trade Queens, but because 2...e5 didn't attack anything as d4 was already guarded, and 2...e5 could be stopped by 2.Nf3 whereas after 1.e4 e6, 2...d5 could not be stopped.  Basic opening concepts, and so I played ...e6 and ...d5 against basically everything at that time, and that's how I started out playing the Queen's Gambit Declined and French Defense as Black when I first started playing serious chess.  Not by some random book or artificial intelligence!  Once you establish a comfort zone based on what comes to you naturally from strictly using opening concepts, then expend of whatever openings you happened to have played, whether it be the French and QGD like me back in 1996/1997, or some other opening.

 

 

ADDENDUM:  Shortly after learning those two openings, it was then realized, maybe around 1998, that just because Black has the same pawn structure, that does not mean the game plays even remotely similar, and that's when I realized that trying to play "Sister Openings", like the French and QGD, Caro-Kann and Slav, or KID and Pirc, was NOT the answer (contrary to what many low rated players try to preach on here, that you should play Sister Openings because they play the same, when in reality, they don't play the same at all!).  That's when I looked at resulting middle games from various openings, and figured out that the French often dealt with a completely blocked center, and pawn chains were the key to the position.  What other opening is that true for?  The King's Indian Defense!

 

So you will see, it's actually through middle game study and middle game concepts that I learned openings, and hence why I preach the same here, and why on other posts I preach to King's Indian players that the Pirc is not the answer for them, the French is!

 

Still to this day, while I play the Caro-Kann, Petroff, Nimzo-Indian, etc, my bread and butter, what I would play against a GM or in a serious tournament situation against a player I have never played before and don't specifically know his weaknesses, is still to this day the French Defense and the King's Indian Defense as Black!  I was born to play blocked positions!

kindaspongey

"... If you want to play chess competitively, then you must develop an opening repertoire. ..." - GM Patrick Wolff (1997)

"... I feel that the main reasons to buy an opening book are to give a good overview of the opening, and to explain general plans and ideas. ..." - GM John Nunn (2006)

"... the average player only needs to know a limited amount about the openings he plays. Providing he understands the main aims of the opening, a few typical plans and a handful of basic variations, that is enough. ..." - FM Steve Giddins (2008)

Here are two books that strive to improve the reader's understanding of opening play:

Openings for Amateurs by Pete Tamburro (2014)
http://kenilworthian.blogspot.com/2014/05/review-of-pete-tamburros-openings-for.html
https://chessbookreviews.wordpress.com/tag/openings-for-amateurs/
https://www.mongoosepress.com/excerpts/OpeningsForAmateurs%20sample.pdf
Discovering Chess Openings by GM John Emms (2006)

"... For beginning players, [Discovering Chess Openings] will offer an opportunity to start out on the right foot and really get a feel for what is happening on the board. ..." - FM Carsten Hansen (2006)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627114655/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen91.pdf

"... For inexperienced players, I think the model that bases opening discussions on more or less complete games that are fully annotated, though with a main focus on the opening and early middlegame, is the ideal. ..." - FM Carsten Hansen (2010)

"... Everyman Chess has started a new series aimed at those who want to understand the basics of an opening, i.e., the not-yet-so-strong players. ... I imagine [there] will be a long series based on the premise of bringing the basic ideas of an opening to the reader through plenty of introductory text, game annotations, hints, plans and much more. ..." - FM Carsten Hansen (2002)

https://web.archive.org/web/20140627055734/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen38.pdf

"The way I suggest you study this book is to play through the main games once, relatively quickly, and then start playing the variation in actual games. Playing an opening in real games is of vital importance - without this kind of live practice it is impossible to get a 'feel' for the kind of game it leads to. There is time enough later for involvement with the details, after playing your games it is good to look up the line." - GM Nigel Davies (2005)

dpnorman

Seems like a silly approach but I guess you'll learn what to do with time.

 

Computers can be very useful in opening prep but not like that.

cagribey93

Just learn the London system for white it goes well with most of the time regardless of what black plays.And for black pieces I'm looking forward to an advise of universal opening too happy.png 

SuirenBoid
StupidGM wrote:
SuirenBoid wrote:

Ditch the engines!! Buy a good book and live with it! Positional Opening Repertoire by John Watson might be a good place to start, or My First Opening Repertoire from New in Chess. As Black, perhaps something like Rock Solid Opening Repertoire for Black by Eingorn, Chess Openings for Black Explained, I'd recommend the Kaufmann book as a one book fits all solution but it might be overwhelming at first, still it could become your opening bible and the lines are sound

So instead of letting a 3500-rated engine build his repertoire, he should instead rely on the subjective ideas of a 2600-rated human.

Got it.

Oh not you again LOL... in short... yes because if you try and play the opening like an Engine you will find yourself in positions you do not understand because you're not rated 3000+ or an engine! It is better to play an "average" system and understand it, its plans, typical themes, tactics and pawn structures etc than to play some tactically complex odd position that is unfamiliar to you and over your head! Chess is a whole game and an holistic approach helps you understand all phases of the game and see how they work together, simply trying to memorise a bunch of engine analysis with a view to making you a better player is completely insane and will only damage your chess development and hinder understanding. If it didn't then the best players in the world would be doing it... they aren't... hell everyone would be doing it.. stockfish is free after all! Simply because an engine says a move is the best move doesnt mean it is the best move for "you" or even the best move, especially in the opening where the horizon of an engines field of view given the astronomical number of possibilities hinders its ability to make good judgements always.

SuirenBoid

In addition... I have Komodo... does that mean that my openings are better than yours because you use stockfish?? Should I learn to paint by studying photoshop? 

ThrillerFan
cagribey93 wrote:

Just learn the London system for white it goes well with most of the time regardless of what black plays.And for black pieces I'm looking forward to an advise of universal opening too  

 

Wrong!  Even the London System Guru of America, out in the California area, Cyrus Lakdawala, King of the London, will tell you that it is no good against the Modern Defense!

1.d4 g6 2.Nf3 Bg7 3.Bf4?! d6 4.e3 Nc6 (or 4...Nd7, take your pick, matter of taste) 5.h3 e5! =/+

 

The main difference with move 4 is 4...Nc6 allows a queenless middlegame if that is what White wants, and 4...Nd7 blocks the Bishop temporarily.  I prefer 4...Nc6 5.h3 e5 where retreating the Bishop is best, and 6.dxe5?! makes matters even worse after 6...dxe5 7.Qxd8+ Kxd8! and now 8.Bg3 or 8.Bh2 is the lesser evil than the popular though outright bad 8.Bg5+ f6 9.Bh4 and the Bishop is shut out of play for virtually the entire game!

 

If you know for a fact that your opponent is strictly a London player against everything, doesn't matter what you normally play, throw the Modern Defense at him!  Continue to do it until he learns that he must find something else for 1...g6.

SuirenBoid

Who is it that wrote those engine opening books? It seems a shame to discount all of the great players in history because they don't fit into some narrow ridiculous criteria, I mean if you managed to attain say the creative genius of Tal (something an engine couldnt and wouldn't teach you in a month of Sundays!) I would say you are doing quite well! 

Uncle_Bent

Try to adopt an opening repertoire that has similar pawn structures, and make sure those pawn structures suit your style.  For example, if you open with 1. e4, play the advance variation against both the French and Caro Kann.  Yes there are differences, most notably Black's white squared bishop is "freed" in the Caro Kann, but the pawn chains are the same and both openings require learning how to hold your center while utilizing your space advantage on the king side.  If you read "Pawn Structue Chess," by A Soltis, you will see that similar pawn structures arise from different openings.  The pawn structure dictates the early development of your pieces, the middlegame strategy, many of the same tactical opportunites and perils, pawn breaks (levers) and often the endgames that most often arise.  Don't just study openings out of context.  It is not an efficient use of your study time. 

Years ago, Bent Larsen contributed to a book called "ZOOM" (an acronym for Zero Hour for Operative Chess Opening Models.)  It advocated that as White, you should play the Catalan.  As Black, against d4 you should play the Grunfeld (which is close to a Catalan reversed), and against 1. e4, you should play the Scandinavian, with 2.... Nf6 and an eventual king-side finachetto (again, similar to the Grunfeld.)  NOW, I would never suggest that a beginner try to learn the Catalan and/or Grunfeld -- they are very hard to master, and require knowledge of many concrete lines -- but, the concept behind the book's suggestions were that you would be able to apply much of the same knowledge.

MickinMD
Cherub_Enjel wrote:

I think the con here far outweighs the pro. 

I agree and believe that statement is not disputable!

You will seldom, especially at a 1600 or lower rating on chess.com, find people well-versed in the opening you choose.  I had a NM speak to the high school chess club I coached and he said the same thing about his play OTB.  Books like Larry Evans and 6 other GM's How to Open a Chess Game, or even Reuben Fine's old The Ideas Behind the Chess Openings are worth more than learning a sequence of opening moves from an engine. Van der Sterrren's Fundamental Chess Openings is a cross between a list of opening variations with a lot of WHY the opening and moves are played in each case and is worth a look.

Chess engines ARE valuable.  Personally, I use the freebie Lucas Chess and set it up so it plays, say, White and the first moves must be 1 e4 c6 2 d4 d5 3 e5, so I can practice playing the Caro-Kann against the advanced variation and set it up so it plays somewhat random moves.

I also set it so I have 10 or 15 minutes and the computer has 5 so that I can practice my thought process, avoiding blunders, at blitz or rapid pace in a short period of time.

But it's probably going to be about a decade before we get a chess engine that tells you good strategies. 

The last rated game I played my favorite 1 e4 defense, the Caro-Kann, the game went 1 e4 c6 2 Bf4. Now we're out of the books already!  If I don't know the purpose of 1...c6 vs 1...e6 is to get my QB outside the pawn chain before it gets blocked in with ...e6 or the rest of the ideas behind the opening I'm lost on move 2!

My last rated game with the Slav Defense, in which I transposed into the opening, went 1 d4 c6 2 Bf4 d5 3 e3 Bf5 4 c5, this one's out of the books already and I needed to rely on some of the ideas behind the Slav and some of the theory on how to open a chess game to win.

kindaspongey

I have often seen praise for How to Open a Chess Game, but it should perhaps be mentioned that it was written about four decades ago, using descriptive notation (1 P-K4 P-K4 2 N-KB3 N-QB3 etc.). Also, the reader should perhaps be warned that, apart from Evans himself, none of the GM authors "was given a specific topic or assignment." For a book with more overall organization, one might want to turn to a book by a single author, such as Discovering Chess Openings by GM John Emms (2006)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627114655/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen91.pdf

or Openings for Amateurs by Pete Tamburro (2014)

http://kenilworthian.blogspot.com/2014/05/review-of-pete-tamburros-openings-for.html
https://chessbookreviews.wordpress.com/tag/openings-for-amateurs/
https://www.mongoosepress.com/excerpts/OpeningsForAmateurs%20sample.pdf

or Winning Chess Openings by Yasser Seirawan (1999).

https://web.archive.org/web/20140627132508/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen173.pdf

kindaspongey

About half a century ago, I think that Ideas Behind the Chess Openings was considered to be nearly essential reading, but now, I fear that its information is seriously out-of-date.

https://web.archive.org/web/20140708112658/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/review315.pdf