Need Help Against The Bowdler Attack

Sort:
Avatar of MagMalol

Long story short, I have been learning the Sicilian Hyperaccelerated Dragon for around 3-4 months now. Recently I have learnt lines against the Grand Prix and McDonnell, and am now only left with the Bowdler attack. From what I can see online, this is commonly seen as one of, if not the worst approach against the Sicilian as Bc4 is technically a mistake. With that being said, it is my WORST variation to face with only a 32% win rate. Just wanted some peoples opinions on what the best way to approach was.

I have seen online people heavily advocating for 1. e4, c5 2. Bc4, e6! But I have also seen other lines suggested, my ONLY problem with the above line is that if a "Delayed Bowdler" is played with 1. e4, c5 2. Nf3 I am playing g6, meaning that if I was to learn this e6 line there might be some problems in theory carrying over between the two. Below will have examples shown, any suggestions and ideas are appreciated

Avatar of lostpawn247

Here is a reference game of a potential response. Play around with this game to see if the positions that you may encounter are ones that you are willing to play.

 
Avatar of Boiboiboss

Thanks

Avatar of MagMalol
lostpawn247 wrote:

Here is a reference game of a potential response. Play around with this game to see if the positions that you may encounter are ones that you are willing to play.

 

Cheers for the example, as is black did play a little iffy fresh out the opening, but the whole Nf6, d5 idea is a good one to keep in the back of my brain, analysed some of the different positions that could come out of those moves specifically, like what if white doesn't push e5 and what if white takes with en pessant. It's atleast something, which for this whole "delayed Bowdler" is better than nothing as there is almost no resources online.

Avatar of Strayaningen

The Bowdler is one of those openings that gets heaped with scorn and contempt out of proportion to how bad it actually is. It's true that Bc4 is not a good move and that Black has equalized immediately, but it is not worse for White or anything. Also, Bc4 after 2...g6 is a pretty reasonable move, like not as good as the more critical moves, but completely fine, with probably a small edge to White.

The Bowdler is not really about learning concrete lines because White has a lot of options. They can play c3 and try for d4, they can play c3 and d3, they can include or not include a4, the knight can go to f3 or e2, etc, and the position will be subtly different in all these.

Instead, it's useful to understand the basic reasons the Bowdler is bad. The reasons are that Black can always play ...e6 to block the diagonal, so the bishop is just never very good there, and it is positioned where it can be hit with tempo gains with ...d5 or ...b5. The fact that playing ...e6 is the main reason it is bad is why it's not such a bad move after ...g6, because now ...e6 weakens the dark squares somewhat. Nonetheless, you should probably include ...e6 at some point anyway.

One thing I have learnt playing against the Bowdler is that you don't necessarily want to rush in with ...d5. A lot of guides to playing against the Bowdler just get you to a point of playing ...d5 and are like "there we go, job done, moving on with life". The problem with this is that after exd5, you end up in a lifeless French Exchange structure that engines like but in which it is very difficult to come up with coherent plans. Also, White's light-squared bishop, which is a pointless piece after ...e6, comes to life after ...d5 and the exchange on d5, as it can sit on a2 or b3 and stare at our d5 pawn, which can be a little bit weak. Our own bishop might end up passively relegated to sitting on e6 defending this pawn. These positions are objectively fine, but as I said, it's difficult to figure out how to make any progress from them.

The alternative is to keep ...d5 in reserve and play ...a6 and ...b5 (or ...b6 if White prevents this with a4) and put the bishop on b7, where it is a very nice piece with pressure against e4, while White's piece stays uselessly staring into e6. You do have to be very careful that you have the d6 square under control at all times, especially if you are going to be putting your other bishop on g7. If you are playing the Hyperaccelerated you obviously like to play with piece pressure, so I would recommend trying out playing like this and seeing what you think.

Avatar of Optimissed

I usually play a6 and e6. Black has to be careful not to play Bb7 after b5 when white retreats the B to a2 or b3, since in some lines white has a B sac on e6. Apart from that, the bowdler isn't very good.

Avatar of jhonnystudio
I will definitely second what Strayaningen posted. Especially 3. Bc4 against 2…g6 which is considered a legitimate try against the accelerated dragon.
Avatar of MervynS

It might be worthwhile to learn separate lines for both 1. e4, c5 2. Nf3 g6 3. Bc4 and 1. e4, c5 2. Bc4, e6.

The problem with the Bowdler is that while it isn't the best line for white, the position is also not losing for white and there is not much theory for both sides to look up. The Bowdler is very common at my rating and I'd say it is probably was more worthwhile for me to spend time figuring out lines against the Bowdler instead of learning all sorts of Open Sicilian lines that I don't see as much.

Avatar of MagMalol
Strayaningen wrote:

The Bowdler is one of those openings that gets heaped with scorn and contempt out of proportion to how bad it actually is. It's true that Bc4 is not a good move and that Black has equalized immediately, but it is not worse for White or anything. Also, Bc4 after 2...g6 is a pretty reasonable move, like not as good as the more critical moves, but completely fine, with probably a small edge to White.

Thank you for the SUPER thorough breakdown of the Bowdler, it is much appreciated, completely get what you are saying in terms of "understanding" the opening rather than specific lines. Also useful to know that you have found for a human after d5, exd5 that the position can be hard to progress and sometimes requires your own bishop to be extremely passive. I'll look into kind of the general attacking ideas, and see what Lichess' database says about the win %'s for black, thank you very much

Avatar of MagMalol
MervynS wrote:

It might be worthwhile to learn separate lines for both 1. e4, c5 2. Nf3 g6 3. Bc4 and 1. e4, c5 2. Bc4, e6.

Thank you for your suggestion, yeah, it was a SLIGHT problem I had with the closed sicilian too, where if I played g6 and they didn't go for the Grand Prix I was getting a little lost in regards to theory but I found a work around for that. Thanks again

Avatar of MagMalol
MervynS wrote:

It might be worthwhile to learn separate lines for both 1. e4, c5 2. Nf3 g6 3. Bc4 and 1. e4, c5 2. Bc4, e6.

Just thought I would give an update that I have found a line that I love, which is technically the "best" line according to the engine too, which practically forces white to be at a -1 position by like move 6 in almost all lines. Took a bunch of searching and watching videos and guides etc, and I was originally playing the whole e6, Nge7 lines, but after coming across this one I will definitely be playing this as it is right up my alley with a mix of aggressive and unknown/white should not be prepped against it. It is the silly looking 2. Nf6, will show example lines below. The last line I have shown is the ONLY response that keeps this at an even game for white, and it is practically a French Defence where white is down 2 tempos. Also if white does not push the very tempting e5, and instead plays d3 or Nc3, then as black you can just play e6 and go back to those more "regular" ideas very commonly seen against the Bowdler.

Avatar of MagMalol

Also against the "Delayed" Bowdler you can do practically the same thing with many transpositions being able to occur.

Avatar of Optimissed
MervynS wrote:

It might be worthwhile to learn separate lines for both 1. e4, c5 2. Nf3 g6 3. Bc4 and 1. e4, c5 2. Bc4, e6.

The problem with the Bowdler is that while it isn't the best line for white, the position is also not losing for white and there is not much theory for both sides to look up. The Bowdler is very common at my rating and I'd say it is probably was more worthwhile for me to spend time figuring out lines against the Bowdler instead of learning all sorts of Open Sicilian lines that I don't see as much.

But then again, provided black doesn't play ...Bb7 when it isn't appropriate (i.e. when e6 needs defending) black has the luxury of a choice between the positionally more correct ...d5 or ...b5, which involves more tactical possibilities and difficulties for black, often in return for some great attacking chances.

The main problem with 2. ...Bc4 is that, with accurate play, black can often blot that Bishop out of the game, maybe on a2 with about six moves for white to make before it's redeveloped. In that space of time black can make a progress with a k-side attack. There are so many possibilities, none of them too sharp for white, that black can play by rule of thumb, working out tactics otb, which isn't too difficult, rather than looking at loads of lines which may not come up.

In the Open Sicilian, I play the O'Kelly, which no-one really knows properly. That's worth an extra 200 ELO. I tend to get a lot of Alapins, a few d4 positions and the occasional Wing Gambit by white. Most players below about 1900 FIDE (not talking about c.c ratings) really struggle against 2. ...a6 over the board, even though it's perfectly ok for white. They make basic blunders like playing an early Be3. Bg5 is alright for white.

Avatar of Optimissed
MagMalol wrote:
MervynS wrote:

It might be worthwhile to learn separate lines for both 1. e4, c5 2. Nf3 g6 3. Bc4 and 1. e4, c5 2. Bc4, e6.

Just thought I would give an update that I have found a line that I love, which is technically the "best" line according to the engine too, which practically forces white to be at a -1 position by like move 6 in almost all lines. Took a bunch of searching and watching videos and guides etc, and I was originally playing the whole e6, Nge7 lines, but after coming across this one I will definitely be playing this as it is right up my alley with a mix of aggressive and unknown/white should not be prepped against it. It is the silly looking 2. Nf6, will show example lines below. The last line I have shown is the ONLY response that keeps this at an even game for white, and it is practically a French Defence where white is down 2 tempos. Also if white does not push the very tempting e5, and instead plays d3 or Nc3, then as black you can just play e6 and go back to those more "regular" ideas very commonly seen against the Bowdler.

In the first position, 6. e6 looks really tempting to play for white.

Avatar of MagMalol
Optimissed wrote:

In the first position, 6. e6 looks really tempting to play for white.

With the video I found on this specific opening it was mentioned about white playing e6, and it is overall just a poor move that loses a pawn, I am sure there might be SOME practical play against a human, but with engine analysis there is no immediate way that white could win back a pawn or put significant pressure. As i said, whether that COULD become a problem into the middlegame, I am unsure, but the creator of the video did say that the move is truly just losing a pawn even though it does look like a tempting move for white.

Avatar of MervynS

I do find many of the ...Nf6 variations against the Bowdler not straightforward to play even though these variations often have the best engine evaluation. As a result, I do aim to play the simpler ...d5 against the Bowdler and accept getting the issues Strayaningen mentions.

Avatar of MagMalol
MervynS wrote:

I do find many of the ...Nf6 variations against the Bowdler not straightforward to play even though these variations often have the best engine evaluation. As a result, I do aim to play the simpler ...d5 against the Bowdler and accept getting the issues Strayaningen mentions.

I can definitely understand how most people would find it that way, but just in terms of my playstyle it does fit how I play, I'm very aggressive and have a fair few gambits in my repertoire, Scotch Gambit is my main and most favourite opening that I have used ever since I was around 1000. This whole Nf6 line reminds me very much of a line i learnt a while ago (have since stopped playing) called the Norweigan Gambit, and even though it wasn't solid, i was able to beat 1800+ players using it. I'll show an example.

Avatar of Optimissed
MagMalol wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

In the first position, 6. e6 looks really tempting to play for white.

With the video I found on this specific opening it was mentioned about white playing e6, and it is overall just a poor move that loses a pawn, I am sure there might be SOME practical play against a human, but with engine analysis there is no immediate way that white could win back a pawn or put significant pressure. As i said, whether that COULD become a problem into the middlegame, I am unsure, but the creator of the video did say that the move is truly just losing a pawn even though it does look like a tempting move for white.

He might not have been a strong player. It's thematic in similar positions, especially a variation of the Caro-Kann.

Avatar of Optimissed
MagMalol wrote:
MervynS wrote:

I do find many of the ...Nf6 variations against the Bowdler not straightforward to play even though these variations often have the best engine evaluation. As a result, I do aim to play the simpler ...d5 against the Bowdler and accept getting the issues Strayaningen mentions.

I can definitely understand how most people would find it that way, but just in terms of my playstyle it does fit how I play, I'm very aggressive and have a fair few gambits in my repertoire, Scotch Gambit is my main and most favourite opening that I have used ever since I was around 1000. This whole Nf6 line reminds me very much of a line i learnt a while ago (have since stopped playing) called the Norweigan Gambit, and even though it wasn't solid, i was able to beat 1800+ players using it. I'll show an example.

Good grief, 7. Qxe5, not 7. de for heavens sake.

Avatar of MagMalol
Optimissed wrote:

Good grief, 7. Qxe5, not 7. de for heavens sake.

Out of my 39 games in that position 14 played dxe5, yes Qxe5 is more solid, I was just showing a random short example that I could of the opening. Surprisingly the dxe5 line actually has a line inside of it which completely kills this gambit, where as Qxe5, while more solid, allows black pretty much into the game no matter what unless white plays perfect moves for about the next 5-6 moves. Regardless was just showing an example cry