Offbeat lines against the french?

Is it losing on the spot?  No.  But it definitely gives away your opening advantage and places White in a questionable position (especially when you fianchetto queenside and castle long).

In the Mega Database, up to 2020, there were 230 games played at the master level (almost all of them Blitz or Rapid), with White going +65=92-73 (28.3%/40.0%/31.7%, respectively).  So yes, I would put it in the "dubious" category.  You are going to see guys like Rapport, Duda, Van Foreest, Dreev, etc play things like that because they like to shake things up.

2. Qe2 seems like it is trying to transpose into a KIA without tipping your hand too early in hopes that Black either doesn't know how to play against the KIA or walks into a move-order issue.  The main problem seems to be what do you do when Black responds with 2...c5?  You've just transposed into an e6-Sicilian where Qe2 looks rather silly (as you would much rather have played Nf3).

I just don't understand, why look for weird sidelines when the simple 2. d4 is principled and strong (and objectively, the best move)?  If you really want to deviate on move 2, why not just play Nc3 or Nf3?  At least those moves will be useful in most lines.  Or maybe even c3?

Interesting about the mega database. I still think given it has been played 67 times by players 2500 or higher according to chess.com and it has a positive win rate over a larger sample size of games recorded on this database, it is a reasonable opening choice. Not the best but certainly an option to "shake things up" like you said. Of course a small percentage of these games are below master level, but from a practical point of view these games are relevant too. Unless perhaps you are a master only playing other masters.

Against 2. Qe2 2. c5 is surely the move. I am seeing in most lines white just transposes to a KIA setup. I found the following line interesting though, and I'm not really sure of the best way to play it. The top played move is 4. g6 which seems strange.

I 100% agree that 2. d4 is the best move. I am spending time looking at these other lines though in case I encounter them. If some of the world's best players get tricky with these "off beat" lines, there's no reason to think I will not be challenged with them at some point too.

2. Nc3 and Nf3 don't seem to do much because black just goes 2. d5. It seems hard for white to not just play d4 anyways.

2. c3 is a new one for me. I don't even think I have ever played against it. Will have to look into it. Not really sure what the point is. I guess I would just play 2. d5 and see what white does.

1. e4 e6 2. c4  - Variant of Steiner

This has somehow become a really interesting discussion!

… also what is this Mega Database?

It is the 9 million game database that comes with chessbase and is updated constantly.  There is an annual update that will add all the new games.  I think these updates are like, 80 bucks, compared to the 200 or so for the full database.  Otherwise, you can subscribe and get the downloads from the chessbase site.  Don't recall what price subscriptions run.

That database is far more complete than Sat, 365chess.com, or the garbage at chess.com.

https://theweekinchess.com/

The Mega Database has something like 100,000 annotated games, which TWIC obviously does not have.

You were not far off as they do have a partnership with PMG, so they were at least tangentially related to NiC.

from chessgames.bom (6,388 games) the french defence wins 33.8%. white wins 40.2%. leaving 26.0% draws.

now...i wanna know why they call it the french defence. its more like a French Thrust, isnt it ?

i mean ur setting up a inferior defence to the e4-d4 thrust.

It's always funny to me when people just say an opening like the French is not a fine opening choice. There are so many world class players who have had huge success with it. I don't care to argue this much but just think it's kind of silly to just say it's not a good opening.

At the highest levels, it isn't played as often these days.  Nepo tried to bring it out in the 2020/2021 Candidates with poor results (notably getting crushed by MVL in round 7).  AlphaZero did not like it from the Black side (it scored very well against it as White).  That said, most people are not playing for World Championships or against the world's strongest computers.

It is funny you mention that.  I had a conversation with a kid (who is a class D player) 2 weeks ago when reviewing his game.  I asked why he played a certain (odd looking) move over another (very logical looking) move and his response was "because the engine says it is 0.02 better".  To which I replied, "Can you, or any of your opponents, tell the difference 2 moves that are separated by 2 centipawns?"

Yep, the engines are powerful tools, but in the hands of people not ready for them, they are a bit like putting dynamite in the hands of children.

Hi! You should perhaps play the Tarrash variation 1.e4, e5 2 d4, d5 3 Nd2, c5 which can lead to more open games compared to blocked center with e5.

Good luck!

What is wrong with 2...Nf6?

Sure 2. Nf6 looks good too. I am not really sure how it will all go after 3. e5 but definitely worth looking at. Of course there are other options which are fine, but c5 seems to make the most sense. I shouldn't have overstated.

After this series of moves 4. Nf4 seems like an interesting option.

Im no GM but prefer a two knights french, there is a trappy line that I have landed several times. this is the positon I try to go for in a two knight french:

It's great becuse it's standard and balck played all the best moves execpt for the seemingly normal looking move bd7 and I get this varaiton every single time if they dont take and go nf6 (minus ke8).

I think i got the solution now. Earlier in this thread it was suggested that i should capture in the centre after c5 is played by black in the tarrach variation - so i did in this game and got a much more comfortable position, the play felt much easier. I was doing what most french def players were doing against me - putting a huge amount of pressure on the central pawns until they become impossible to defend.

When the opponet plays nonsense, all openings are good.

4...cxd4? is a very bad mistake already, and punished not by 5.dxe6? but rather with the direct check 6.Bb5+. Now 6...Nc6 is not terribly good of course, and after 6...Bd7 there is the simple typical trick 7.dxe6, when the Bb5 is indirectly protected due to the Qh5+ fork.

Okay but black definitely does not need to play c5 on move 3. I actually stopped playing this move almost immediately after trying it a couple times. There is this nice line against Nf6 that gave me a lot of trouble.

I started playing 3. Be7 because of this line.