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Overrated /underrated chess openings

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chessterd5
chessterd5
Nov 28, 2023
0
#81
mrOpenRuy wrote:
chessterd5 wrote:

the Caro kann is certainly not trash.

it is designed for the patient player who is willing to play the entire game.

im not saying the caro kann is trash. Im just saying that its very slow and black has little to no chance of winning. its an opening that you play for a draw/for endgame practice

the Caro kann is very slow and black plays it for an EQUAL chance for a win, a loss, or a draw. and endgame practice does make perfect.

The Caro kann appeals to the type of person that is not easily shaken by the shock and awe.

CaroKannEnjoyer02
CaroKannEnjoyer02
Nov 28, 2023
0
#82
mrOpenRuy wrote:
Sharp2Axe wrote:
TheSampson wrote:

I think another overrated opening is honestly the Caro-Kann. I feel like black has little maneuvering space in many lines. Just look at this:

Where the e5 pawn is constantly locking down black’s pieces, making development difficult, while white has all the room he wants.

Or, even worse, this:

Where black has a terrible bishop, poor development and a questionable pawn structure, all while white has a comfortable position.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s a great choice at beginner and intermediate level, but I feel like there are more cons than people (especially gotham fans) give it credit for.

WOW. I hate caro too, but this is too far. Black has fine, playable positions there and you just said some nonsense to make it look bad.

"Where black has a terrible bishop, poor development and a questionable pawn structure, all while white has a comfortable position."

What black bishop is bad? h7 is very active, while f8 will go to d6 and be pretty good. Poor development? Black is only slightly behiend, 2 tempo for development.... White does have a comfortable position, but black has nice play too.

"Where the e5 pawn is constantly locking down black’s pieces, making development difficult, while white has all the room he wants."

First of all, this is supposed to be a caro, and made it into a French line....

Second, Black has play on the queenside, whgile white attacks on the kingside. Also, Black has easy develo0pment there.

Side note: Why Nbd2? Bxh6 is much better.

" white could play the Tal instead and shut down black’s queenside space advantage." I beg you, show me the line.

If you dont think my advice is good, im 1800+ uscf. I know what I am talking about.

The short variation:

TheSampson was... Correct!

Dont they normally play 5. ... c5, pressuring the center, THEN doing that other stuff? Looks kinda goofy to me, but im big dum so eh.

french
french
Show your flair!
Nov 28, 2023
0
#83

English Defense is super underrated

CaroKannEnjoyer02
CaroKannEnjoyer02
Nov 28, 2023
0
#84

Not an opening, but a variation.

I feel the chigorin variation of the french is very underrated, and very good for taking the average french defense player out of their comfort zone.

Sharp2Axe
Sharp2Axe
Nov 28, 2023
0
#85
CaroKannEnjoyer02 wrote:

Not an opening, but a variation.

I feel the chigorin variation of the french is very underrated, and very good for taking the average french defense player out of their comfort zone.

That is actually one of the only positions were playing 2..d5 is not the best for black.

I dont remember the line that I played, but e5, and be7 both mke good sense.

Now that I look at it, e5 makes a lot of sense.

mrOpenRuy
mrOpenRuy
Nov 28, 2023
0
#86
CaroKannEnjoyer02 wrote:
mrOpenRuy wrote:
Sharp2Axe wrote:
TheSampson wrote:

I think another overrated opening is honestly the Caro-Kann. I feel like black has little maneuvering space in many lines. Just look at this:

Where the e5 pawn is constantly locking down black’s pieces, making development difficult, while white has all the room he wants.

Or, even worse, this:

Where black has a terrible bishop, poor development and a questionable pawn structure, all while white has a comfortable position.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s a great choice at beginner and intermediate level, but I feel like there are more cons than people (especially gotham fans) give it credit for.

WOW. I hate caro too, but this is too far. Black has fine, playable positions there and you just said some nonsense to make it look bad.

"Where black has a terrible bishop, poor development and a questionable pawn structure, all while white has a comfortable position."

What black bishop is bad? h7 is very active, while f8 will go to d6 and be pretty good. Poor development? Black is only slightly behiend, 2 tempo for development.... White does have a comfortable position, but black has nice play too.

"Where the e5 pawn is constantly locking down black’s pieces, making development difficult, while white has all the room he wants."

First of all, this is supposed to be a caro, and made it into a French line....

Second, Black has play on the queenside, whgile white attacks on the kingside. Also, Black has easy develo0pment there.

Side note: Why Nbd2? Bxh6 is much better.

" white could play the Tal instead and shut down black’s queenside space advantage." I beg you, show me the line.

If you dont think my advice is good, im 1800+ uscf. I know what I am talking about.

The short variation:

TheSampson was... Correct!

Dont they normally play 5. ... c5, pressuring the center, THEN doing that other stuff? Looks kinda goofy to me, but im big dum so eh.

no because blacks pawn structure can actually be broken and black can lose very quickly in this position if he does not play this correctly. also white has a space and development advantage and gets to target blacks weak center

Sharp2Axe
Sharp2Axe
Nov 28, 2023
0
#87

True, but the b-file and the possibility of a d-passed pawn looks to almost make up for it. Personally, I would play 11...Bg6, preparing c5 and d4. I dont see a great reply for white. What does the theory say is best after bg6?

Sharp2Axe
Sharp2Axe
Nov 28, 2023
0
#88

?

jmpchess12
jmpchess12
Nov 28, 2023
0
#89
mrOpenRuy wrote:
chessterd5 wrote:

the Caro kann is certainly not trash.

it is designed for the patient player who is willing to play the entire game.

im not saying the caro kann is trash. Im just saying that its very slow and black has little to no chance of winning. its an opening that you play for a draw/for endgame practice

Really nothing is played for a draw, some things are played with the idea of being "ok with a draw" and even then it really only applies at high level when both players know their stuff. Against inferior opponents, GMs can take incredibly dry positions and slowly improve them to something promising.

Players who play dry solid openings are hoping to grind their opponent down over time, or bait them into something speculative.

mrOpenRuy
mrOpenRuy
Nov 28, 2023
0
#90
jmpchess12 wrote:
mrOpenRuy wrote:
chessterd5 wrote:

the Caro kann is certainly not trash.

it is designed for the patient player who is willing to play the entire game.

im not saying the caro kann is trash. Im just saying that its very slow and black has little to no chance of winning. its an opening that you play for a draw/for endgame practice

Really nothing is played for a draw, some things are played with the idea of being "ok with a draw" and even then it really only applies at high level when both players know their stuff. Against inferior opponents, GMs can take incredibly dry positions and slowly improve them to something promising.

Players who play dry solid openings are hoping to grind their opponent down over time, or bait them into something speculative.

i decided to go back to 1200 on chess.com and i definitely feel like they are more challenging compared to the 2200's on lichess. the difference is that the chess.com kids play all these dry boring lines or some super dubious opening which really challenges you to think outside of the box. the 2200's play mainline real openings seen at higher levels which we are all comfortable with and know well.

also i swear these 1200s on chess.com actually hate chess. like who plays the exchange french and Qf3 setups for fun?

mrOpenRuy
mrOpenRuy
Nov 28, 2023
0
#91

what im trying to say is that the lower levels like to play easy openings or openings that they hope they can get a quick win with (exchange french, early queen attacks, dubious kingside attacks, or the london /pyramid systems

i dont think they play it with the intention of being "boring" or trying to have fun . I think they play it because they want to annoy you and get into your head or just dont know no better. i have never seen the things ive seen at 1200 chess.com that ive seen at 2100 lichess. its like a new world to me, a new kind of chess...

CaroKannEnjoyer02
CaroKannEnjoyer02
Nov 28, 2023
0
#92
mrOpenRuy wrote:

what im trying to say is that the lower levels like to play easy openings or openings that they hope they can get a quick win with (exchange french, early queen attacks, dubious kingside attacks, or the london /pyramid systems

i dont think they play it with the intention of being "boring" or trying to have fun . I think they play it because they want to annoy you and get into your head or just dont know no better. i have never seen the things ive seen at 1200 chess.com that ive seen at 2100 lichess. its like a new world to me, a new kind of chess...

Wait, you face early queen attacks even at 1200?!?

mrOpenRuy
mrOpenRuy
Nov 28, 2023
0
#93
CaroKannEnjoyer02 wrote:
mrOpenRuy wrote:

what im trying to say is that the lower levels like to play easy openings or openings that they hope they can get a quick win with (exchange french, early queen attacks, dubious kingside attacks, or the london /pyramid systems

i dont think they play it with the intention of being "boring" or trying to have fun . I think they play it because they want to annoy you and get into your head or just dont know no better. i have never seen the things ive seen at 1200 chess.com that ive seen at 2100 lichess. its like a new world to me, a new kind of chess...

Wait, you face early queen attacks even at 1200?!?

look at the trash my recent opponment was playing, Qe7,c6,d6,b5,a5,h6,g5

jmpchess12
jmpchess12
Nov 28, 2023
0
#94
mrOpenRuy wrote:

what im trying to say is that the lower levels like to play easy openings or openings that they hope they can get a quick win with (exchange french, early queen attacks, dubious kingside attacks, or the london /pyramid systems

i dont think they play it with the intention of being "boring" or trying to have fun . I think they play it because they want to annoy you and get into your head or just dont know no better. i have never seen the things ive seen at 1200 chess.com that ive seen at 2100 lichess. its like a new world to me, a new kind of chess...

Yeah, at some level you have people play the exchange french because they like to exchange pawns or want to avoid the closed structure. My point is that the exchange french is not a draw at that level.

Nathankuonat
Nathankuonat
Show your flair!
Nov 28, 2023
0
#95

boncloud is underrated

10000000000%

654Psyfox
654Psyfox
Nov 28, 2023
0
#96
Nathankuonat wrote:

boncloud is underrated

10000000000%

This is what anyone who plays the bongcloud looks like

tomilola_ng
tomilola_ng
Nov 28, 2023
0
#97

Sicilian

BONGCLOUDMASTERMIND69420
BONGCLOUDMASTERMIND69420
Nov 30, 2023
0
#98
654Psyfox wrote:
Nathankuonat wrote:

boncloud is underrated

10000000000%

This is what anyone who plays the bongcloud looks like

Problem?

BILLY_AGAPITIDIS
BILLY_AGAPITIDIS
Jan 14, 2024
0
#99

Playing the caro gives no opportunity to win for black??? 😂😂So karpov, Alireza, Navara, Howell never existed?? Also some lines that have been shown here are trash. Nobody who has any idea of the caro plays like this. Every opening can be boring or aggressive depending on who plays it.

Sharp2Axe
Sharp2Axe
Jan 14, 2024
0
#100
BILLY_AGAPITIDIS wrote:

Playing the caro gives no opportunity to win for black??? 😂😂So karpov, Alireza, Navara, Howell never existed?? Also some lines that have been shown here are trash. Nobody who has any idea of the caro plays like this. Every opening can be boring or aggressive depending on who plays it.

My guy just summarized my while argument!