Picking a King's Indian Variation

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Master_Kann

I have been playing the Samisch, but am getting tired of it.  I was wondering if anybody had any opinions of a new variation for me to play as White.  Thanks in advance, and your reasoning behind the line you suggest will be appreciated.

moonnie

Lots depends on your style. I personally like the bayonet as i do not like to wait and see blacks attack

pfren

Pretty much a matter of style and taste. The Samisch is OK, and advocated at the recent Lars Shandorff repertoire book published by Quality Chess. Just a warning: the book targets mid-to-advanced players, you won't find too many explanations about plans and general strategy in it.

Master_Kann

@pfren

What do you think of the 6. ... c5 line from the White side of the Samisch?

pfren
Master_Kann wrote:

@pfren

What do you think of the 6. ... c5 line from the White side of the Samisch?

White is a pawn up, for "free". However, it's not that "free"- Black IMO has in all variations adequate counterplay- at least on practical OTB play. Declining the gambit with 7.Nge2 Nc6 8.d5 Ne5 9.Ng3 is much more "chessic", and interesting. Accepting the gambit should only appeal to professionals, engine-generated variations can well go down for another twenty moves or so.

Master_Kann

Well, the 6. ... c5 variation was indeed what was boring me about the Samisch.  I did not even consider ignoring the gambit.

benonidoni

Be3 variation instead of Kne1 or Knd2 which are long and people tend to memorize those lines.

The Be3 always draws black to kng4 thus the Bg5,f6, Bh4 or Bc1 with Bishop back to E3 to hold the tension.

Master_Kann

I don't understand what you mean.  A diagram would be very helpful.

RookSacrifice_OLD

Four Pawns attack:


Samisch:

RookSacrifice_OLD

Averbach:

Main Line:



Master_Kann

I think you got the Main Line wrong.

Master_Kann

And for the averbach you should probably show 6. ... c5

ThrillerFan

I recommend the Gligoric Variation:

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 O-O 6.Be2 e5 7.Be3 and now if 7...Ng4 (main move), then 8.Bg5 f6 9.Bc1 (9.Bh4 is an option, but 9.Bc1 has some newer ideas in it) Nc6 10.d5 Ne7 11.h3 Nh6 and now, instead of the "old" 12.g4, play 12.h4!  The opening of the h-file is a bigger problem for Black than the opening of the g-file, and what Black has to do to avoid it is just as ugly for him!

pfren
ThrillerFan wrote:

I recommend the Gligoric Variation:

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 O-O 6.Be2 e5 7.Be3 and now if 7...Ng4 (main move), then 8.Bg5 f6 9.Bc1 (9.Bh4 is an option, but 9.Bc1 has some newer ideas in it) Nc6 10.d5 Ne7 11.h3 Nh6 and now, instead of the "old" 12.g4, play 12.h4!  The opening of the h-file is a bigger problem for Black than the opening of the g-file, and what Black has to do to avoid it is just as ugly for him!

Noone is playing 10...Ne7 anymore, planting the knight audaciously in d4 is pretty standard.

Add to that Kramnik's new idea in the 7...ed4 variation.

Master_Kann

I think the Gligoric is a little too theoretical for my taste.

ThrillerFan

Well, if the Gligoric is too theoretical, then I recommend not going into a King's Indian defense at all, and play 1.e4.  Lines like the Saemisch, Fianchetto, etc are even more theoretical.  The Gligoric has less theory than the main classical or Petrosian.  The other advantage with the Gligoric, and the reason I recommended it, was that many Black players are so used to storming that Kingside that they are just weakening themselves if you haven't castled yet.

By the way, if you really want to talk theoretical, try playing what I played for the longest time.  The Four Pawns Attack!

benonidoni
ThrillerFan wrote:

I recommend the Gligoric Variation:

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 O-O 6.Be2 e5 7.Be3 and now if 7...Ng4 (main move), then 8.Bg5 f6 9.Bc1 (9.Bh4 is an option, but 9.Bc1 has some newer ideas in it) Nc6 10.d5 Ne7 11.h3 Nh6 and now, instead of the "old" 12.g4, play 12.h4!  The opening of the h-file is a bigger problem for Black than the opening of the g-file, and what Black has to do to avoid it is just as ugly for him!

The variation that I meant and is fun for white and seems to catch black off guard (Black seems to be expecting the NE1 or ND2 variations in the KI.) I would castle on move 7 for white though.

pfren

One can play against the King's Indian with very little theory to memorize.

See Yusupov's courses.

Mysellf have no specific line which I employ all the time against the KID, but mostly I enjoy playing the Averbakh, as well as g3 systems. Especially the g3 sytems are quite hard to meet- white has a space advantage, Black has no attack, and he either has to defend carefully, or to play very speculatively to generate play.

The Averbakh is a very safe, and very technical variation. Some of the lines are very theoretical (up to move 45 or so!), but white does not have to enter them.

Master_Kann
ThrillerFan wrote:

Well, if the Gligoric is too theoretical, then I recommend not going into a King's Indian defense at all, and play 1.e4.  Lines like the Saemisch, Fianchetto, etc are even more theoretical.  The Gligoric has less theory than the main classical or Petrosian.  The other advantage with the Gligoric, and the reason I recommended it, was that many Black players are so used to storming that Kingside that they are just weakening themselves if you haven't castled yet.

By the way, if you really want to talk theoretical, try playing what I played for the longest time.  The Four Pawns Attack!

"... the Gligoric is not easy to play for White because Black has eight (!) main continuations.  Because of all this, White has to be ready to handle the theory of several lines, whereas Black only really needs to know one.  White also has to be prepared to play with several different pawn structures.  This makes it difficult to play compared to, for example, the Petrosian Variation, where White really only has to understand one structure.  Because of this demand on the White player, the Gligoric is more popular amongst titled players than it is at other levels."  

Quoted from David Vigorito in his book, Attacking Chess The King's Indian Volume 1.  This pretty much shows that your comment wasn't quite accurate.  Sorry, I never even read your comment until today, this is the reason for the delayed response.

ghostofmaroczy

Rapidwurst, isn't that intensely theoretical?