Playing Against The Accelerated Dragon

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Atos

Well, but you could say that about any opening. You could say that it is not really necessary to learn 1.d4 before you are FM level (and in fact not even then) since you can do well with 1.e4 on any level. But many people are curious, or don't feel that the 1.e4 quite suits them, or want to learn something new etc.

If someone strongly wants to learn the Sicilian and they are club-level player I wouldn't discourage them. The fact that they want to learn it should help.

MapleDanish

Awwwe this isn't even remotely on topic :P.  Anyways, for those still interested. The line we were talking about earlier with 8. ... a5 9. O-O a4 10. Nxa4 Nxe4 11. Nb5 scores VERY well both in engine databases AND human databases.  Perhaps it's worth deeper investigation (which is exactly what I'm doing right now :P).

N-k5

The late GM Wojtkiewicz seems to have favored 8...a5, and Bologan employed your above line in a game annotated in the below article with excellent results.

http://main.uschess.org/content/view/8117/429/

As a side note, where's a good place to learn how to play the Maroczy lines?  

shuttlechess92

I love how ih8sens didn't even cite me in his "discovery" >:(

Elubas

Good point Atos. Perhaps they should just be warned Tongue out

siamesenightmare93
Conzipe wrote:
siamesenightmare93 wrote:

My lord, I hate the accelerated Dragon!

Well, here's black's idea, for those who don't already know. SInce the 9. 0-0-0 d5?! lines are rather problematic for Black these days, Black plays the accelerated dragon in hopes that if d5 is necessary it might be played in only one move, saving him a tempo and possibly the game.

The way I see it, no Black player plays the Sicilian in hopes that he will get to play a long, positional, struggle. Especially not if he plays the dragon. If you aren't looking for a razor sharp game with insane sacrifices and mating attacks, where one tempo decides the victor, then the Dragon is not your opening!

On this note, I believe the Maroczy bind is absolutely the correct choice for White, not just from an objective point of view, but psychologically as well. You take Black into a situation he might not be comfortable with, and immediately restrict his counterplay.


 I'm an accelerated dragon player and I can tell you that this is exactly what I want! ^^

Personally I'm more scared of the main line since it's not as easy to create a positional game there, 7...Qa5 is decent but white probably maintains a slight edge there.


 I can only speak from my own experience here, and I know that in the sicilian line I like to play (the kan), even though the Maroczy Bind technically scores terribly for White in that variation, I am still extremely irritated to see it. Positional play?? Bah!! Where's my attack?

Anyway, on what was being discussed before, I don't think it is appropriate to discourage a beginner from any opening. I think the greater danger for the beginner is not necessarily the exploration of openings that are extremely sharp and double-edged (the sicilian), but becoming locked into the all-too-familiar giocco piano/two knights/four knights, EVERY GAME.

I personally can say that I struggled to fight e4 when I was a beginner until I discovered the Sicilian. When I devoted the time and energy to learning something about it, I saw my abilities skyrocket. Difficulty motivates more than it baffles. :)

Alternatively, in the Accelerated Dragon, you could just play extremely slowly as White, wait for black to commit to d6, and then jump into one of the excellent 9. 0-0-0 lines for White.

MapleDanish

The plan seems reasonable too.  White achieves such excellent piece activity on the queenside (actually that's not quite true... the knights are on the queenside but hitting the center) that black having two central pawns is almost a weakness.  White has to target them agressively (or black would naturally be better) but in the end white's better structure AND lead in development leave me thinking that white has both the better middlegame, and if played properly (due to the pawn structure), a better endgame!  Engines evaluate the position as about equal but when made to play the position out on identical hardware, white has the better of it.

MapleDanish

A LOT of analysis ... thanks largely to Tiviakov... is showing that in terms of concrete variations the Bind is equal.  If black can trade pieces (keeping the LSB's ON the board) ... he even has SOME winning chances.  Obviously the bind is more or less a draw, but if white really wants an advantage/winning chances... I just don't believe it's good enough anymore.

siamesenightmare93

At levels lower than master, I don't believe there are "drawn" opeings, because of the massively high potential for mistakes in an amateur game. ih8sens, I don't know your playing strength, but chances are if it isn't 2000+, the Maroczy Bind is as good a winning shot as any!

MapleDanish
siamesenightmare93 wrote:

At levels lower than master, I don't believe there are "drawn" opeings, because of the massively high potential for mistakes in an amateur game. ih8sens, I don't know your playing strength, but chances are if it isn't 2000+, the Maroczy Bind is as good a winning shot as any!


"Unfortunately" it's currently 2110 and I play in the top categories of tournaments around here.. leaving my average opposition in roughly the mid 2200's.  It's not that the bind isn't playable... it's that I don't like it :P.

siamesenightmare93
ih8sens wrote:
siamesenightmare93 wrote:

At levels lower than master, I don't believe there are "drawn" opeings, because of the massively high potential for mistakes in an amateur game. ih8sens, I don't know your playing strength, but chances are if it isn't 2000+, the Maroczy Bind is as good a winning shot as any!


"Unfortunately" it's currently 2110 and I play in the top categories of tournaments around here.. leaving my average opposition in roughly the mid 2200's.  It's not that the bind isn't playable... it's that I don't like it :P.


 Well played, sir. You could always try the Rossolimo, although I'm figuring it's probably not your style, if you aren't into the Maroczy.

MapleDanish

I've been experimenting with the Rossolimo ... it's not bad :P.  Roughly equal... black has to come up with something a little more creative than white... not bad.  I think I'm liking the mainline with 5. Nc3 though. Perhaps black doesn't have "that much".

siamesenightmare93

The problem with meeting Nc6 with c3 is that if Black intended to play one of the many other sicilian variations that might begin with Nc6, White is then stuck in a c3 sicilian when I much prefer to play a standard open sicilian against say the taimanov or the kalashnikov

bambette

Having done a search for "Maroczy bind" on the net, there seems to be a ton of stuff on how to beat the bind as black, but next to nothing  on how to play it successfully as white. Where have the players that use the bind regularly gotten their knowledge from? Is there a good book I can get hold of? 

bambette

Yes, I keep hearing that it's good for white - but where do I get to learn about it in depth? There are snippets here and there, but as I said earlier, mostly from a black perspective. 

pvmike

I like the playing the Nc2 lines of the Maroczy Bind, it gives white good winning chances, but there are lines that give black an equal position.

On a different note, I noticed some people saying that the Sicilian defense gives black better endgame chances because they have more center pawns. But in the ending wing pawns are often more valuable. Center pawns lose value as pieces come off the board, and outside pawns gain value. 

pps

hi i play the accelerated dragon as a main weapon my father used to play it first This all depends on what you're searching for, since you already play the main line against the dragon it makes sense to play the main line against the accelerated dragon as well.

Though playing the main line is almost like playing into the hands of the accelerated dragon player since it will basically give him a position from the main line in the dragon with a few extra options like 7...Qa5, 8...a5 and 8...Ng4 which all is quite playable.

However it's a pretty good choice practically, just find something you like against these sidelines, it will definitely be less work than learning the whole maroczy bind complex. But learning the maroczy is very useful and instructive since it can be reached in many different ways and you will get good knowledge about how to play with a lot space. However the play in the maroczy bind is the complete opposite to the main lines, it's incredibly positional instead of incredibly tactical.dosent work accelerated dragon is a aggressive oppening with a lot of tactical shots know way the way beating the dragon varition work.next against the morcy bind is playde like this 




Monie49

I recall that Fischer said the Sicilian gives Black the best chances against 1. e4.