I think that ...Nf6 is very standard after 1 Nf3 or 1 Nf3 d5 2 d4.
Playing as black against Nf3, D4 without transposing to Slav defense.
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kindaspongey menulis:
I think that ...Nf6 is very standard after 1 Nf3 or 1 Nf3 d5 2 d4.
I'm not really a fan of D4, D5
Sep 6, 2019
0
#4
One of the advantages of playing KingsIndian is can transpose to it from practically any white opening other than 1.e4. There is no problem playing 1Nf3 Nf6 2c4 g6 etc.
Sep 6, 2019
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#5
After 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.d4, you can enter A48 East Indian variation of the KID with 2...g6. From there the game can transpose into the mainline KID or continue in the East Indian after 3.Nc3 d5. etc.
Sep 6, 2019
0
#6
Reuben_Sammitch wrote:
After 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.d4, you can enter A48 East Indian variation of the KID with 2...g6. From there the game can transpose into the mainline KID or continue in the East Indian after 3.Nc3 d5. etc.
There is no such thing as the "East Indian" Defense.
After 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.Nc3, Black can play 3...d6 where 4.e4 is now the Pirc Defense, or if 3...d5, as indicated in your post, then 4.Bf4 is the Barry Attack (Not to be confused with the London System).
After 3.Nc3, there is no type of Indian system at all. All Indian Defenses require d4 and c4 to be played, such as the Kings Indian, Nimzo Indian, Queens Indian, Grunfeld, Old Indian, etc
Just because Black plays Nf6, g6, Bg7, and d6 does not constitute a Kings Indian Defense. Openings are classified based on the entire position, not one side's moves.
Those 4 moves by Black could land you in a Kings Indian Defense, Pirc, Torre Attack, London System, etc, but also, there is no "East Indian".
Sep 6, 2019
0
#7
rains19 wrote:
Hey, I've just joined a chess club a couple days ago. 1 of the player likes to play Nf3, I replied with D5 and the game transposing to a Slav Defence. I don't really like playing Slav and rarely play it, and my opponent seems good at Slav defense since when I play D4 he always plays Slav.
One of the game I played C6, then D5. I won the game but it seems that he is pretty good at Caro-Kann too.
Should I replied it with Nf6? since I like to play KID against D4, is there any risk if I play Nf6?
One of the game I played C6, then D5. I won the game but it seems that he is pretty good at Caro-Kann too.
Should I replied it with Nf6? since I like to play KID against D4, is there any risk if I play Nf6?
When deciding what to play against 1.c4 or 1.Nf3, you must account for what you play against 1.d4 or 1.e4 as it can transpose. For example, if you do not play the Sicilian, then 1.Nf3 c5 is a mistake because White can play 2.e4 and you are stuck in a Sicilian. If you are a Sicilian player, then 1...c5 is fine.
If you hate double queen pawn openings (d4 d5), then 1...d5 is a mistake against 1.Nf3, but if you like 1.d4 d5, then 1.Nf3 d5 is strong.
1.Nf3 is very transpositional, and this must be accounted for.
Indeed. I particularly find it offensive (personally) whenever someone doesn't like DQP openings. I'm not going to be passive-aggressive here, rather be totally upfront with you young pups...it's an absolute must to ingrain Queen's Gambit theory, either with white or black into your overall opening repertoire. And it's not only COOL to answer 1. Nf3 with 1. ... Nf6, it's OP man. Central control much? Every basic opening principle in elementary text expounds on this even if you don't know much theory. Please. Dont get me started on why I think the Slav is not analogous to the the CK. Please. I'm an Caro Kann player myself, and I would never ever advocate someone else to play the Slav or Semi-Slav just because. If it works for other players, cool. But essentially in this context, you and your opponent (who plays the CK & Slav) imho are not that. Fault me for my sanctimonious attitude, but I dont care because I'm not the one asking for advice. If spongey's or Thriller's replies dont resonate with you, nothing will but just experience. Just play. Because playin's always the thing with me. Dropping dimes of knowledge is useless if you're just a nitpicky. I advocate for opening study first n foremost, but not outright ignorance of basic fundamentals of opening play in lieu and reluctance to expanding one's knowledge. Please. Peace.
Sep 7, 2019
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#9
ThrillerFan wrote:
Reuben_Sammitch wrote:
After 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.d4, you can enter A48 East Indian variation of the KID with 2...g6. From there the game can transpose into the mainline KID or continue in the East Indian after 3.Nc3 d5. etc.
There is no such thing as the "East Indian" Defense.
After 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.Nc3, Black can play 3...d6 where 4.e4 is now the Pirc Defense, or if 3...d5, as indicated in your post, then 4.Bf4 is the Barry Attack (Not to be confused with the London System).
After 3.Nc3, there is no type of Indian system at all. All Indian Defenses require d4 and c4 to be played, such as the Kings Indian, Nimzo Indian, Queens Indian, Grunfeld, Old Indian, etc
Just because Black plays Nf6, g6, Bg7, and d6 does not constitute a Kings Indian Defense. Openings are classified based on the entire position, not one side's moves.
Those 4 moves by Black could land you in a Kings Indian Defense, Pirc, Torre Attack, London System, etc, but also, there is no "East Indian".
https://www.365chess.com/eco/A48_King's_Indian_East_Indian_defence
Do you have any reason to believe that Sahovski Informator
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627063241/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen145.pdf
has anything to do with the selection of names associated with ECO codes at 365chess?
Sep 7, 2019
0
#12
"... wikipedia ..." - Reuben_Sammitch
Not really very indicative of anything except that sites use each other as sources. We've discussed this sort of thing before, and I have never seen anyone identifying a Sahovski Informator product that assigns names to the ECO codes. From time to time, someone has posted a picture of one of the books. You can get an idea of what they are like:
https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/eco-classifications
Sep 8, 2019
0
#15
Even chess.com calls it the East Indian.
https://www.chess.com/explorer?moveList=d4+Nf6+Nf3+g6&ply=4
There is a nice site called pgnmentor.com with thousands of games categorized by opening. Does the following help? Could you play that? There are many other KID examples and variations starting with 1.Nf3.
[Event "Essen"]
[Site "Essen"]
[Date "1948.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Rautenberg, Wilhelm"]
[Black "Elm"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo ""]
[BlackElo ""]
[ECO "E97"]
1.Nf3 Nf6 2.d4 g6 3.c4 Bg7 4.Nc3 O-O 5.e4 d6 6.Be2 e5 7.O-O Nc6 8.dxe5 dxe5
9.Bg5 Qxd1 10.Raxd1 Bg4 11.Rfe1 Bxf3 12.gxf3 Nh5 13.Rd7 f6 14.Be3 Rf7 15.Red1 Re8
16.c5 Rfe7 17.Nb5 Nd4 18.Bc4+ Kh8 19.Rxc7 f5 20.Kg2 Rxc7 21.Nxc7 Rc8 22.Ne6 fxe4
23.fxe4 Bf6 24.f4 Nxe6 25.Bxe6 Re8 26.f5 Nf4+ 27.Kf3 Nxe6 28.fxe6 Kg8 29.Rd7 Re7
30.Bh6 Rxd7 31.exd7 Kf7 32.Kg4 Ke7 33.Bg5 Bxg5 34.Kxg5 Kxd7 35.Kh6 Ke6 36.Kxh7 Kf6
37.b4 1-0
Sep 8, 2019
0
#17
kindaspongey wrote:
Do you have any reason to believe that Sahovski Informator
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627063241/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen145.pdf
has anything to do with the selection of names associated with ECO codes at 365chess?
Ok, I see what you're getting at now. So I shouldn't have invoked ECO/SI since they're not into colloquial names.
But the move sequence in question does seem to be known fairly widely as the East Indian variation of the KID.
Reuben_Sammitch wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
Do you have any reason to believe that Sahovski Informator
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627063241/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen145.pdf
has anything to do with the selection of names associated with ECO codes at 365chess?
Ok, I see what you're getting at now. So I shouldn't have invoked ECO/SI since they're not into colloquial names.
But the move sequence in question does seem to be known fairly widely as the East Indian variation of the KID.
This sort of issue has come up before. A similar discussion took place at:
https://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-openings/sicilian-defense-closed-variation-3?page=2
(Whether or not the Closed Sicilian was defined by 1 e4 c5 2 Nc3.)
If I remember correctly, there was another argument over whether or not the Smith-Moira was defined by 1 e4 c5 2 d4.
https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/why-is-the-smith-morra-called-a-gambit
At https://www.chess.com/forum/view/game-analysis/followed-opening-principles-still-lost-unsure-what-i-did-wrong?page=2
the discussion briefly became one over whether or not 1 e4 g6 was the Modern Defense.
I think that the main culprit is computer software that has somewhat simplified opening terminology, changing it from the way that it has been viewed by many. Computer sources are apt to simplify and approximate actual human usage because it is pretty hard for computers to duplicate it. Nobody is an appointed terminology authority, but titled players are more apt to have an idea about what helps to convey important chess concepts to each other. Since they are also the ones who do most of the chess writing, it seems to me that it might be sensible to try to be in tune with the way they use language. I do not know if titled players have generally adopted the term, "East Indian", but that seems to be the sort of thing that many consider to be the appropriate question.
One of the game I played C6, then D5. I won the game but it seems that he is pretty good at Caro-Kann too.
Should I replied it with Nf6? since I like to play KID against D4, is there any risk if I play Nf6?