Ponziani: Impractical in non-computer Correspondence Chess?

The above part by kantifields is hogwash. Has it ever occurred to anyone that I might have won because I was the better player?

In current correspodence chess[with the help of chess engines] many at the very top levels believe 1. e4 may not be worth playing as Black can always play the Petroff Defense and be sure of obtaining a draw.

[1. e4  e5  2. Nf3  Nf6]  Thus leaving the Ruy Lopez and Ponziani and many other openings out in the cold.

As for the Ponziani there is no line which gives Black an advantage if White knows what he is doing.

Regarding the Fraser variation of the Ponziani [1. e4  e5 2. Nf3  Nc6

3. c3  Nf6  4. d4  Nxe4 5. d5  Bc5] Black must play very carefully and quite long lines to obtain a draw.  Black must dodge dozens of hurdles so as not to lose.  The theory of the Fraser has advanced since I gave that Exhibition vs a number of strong players with chess engines.

There are only a very select few individuals who know the current best lines of the Fraser Defense against the  Ponziani.

If they were to know [received analysis from say my Ponziani Analysis Group] they would still have to be ready to fight against several lines for White which are complicated and long. 

If someone wants to look up my old games per the Exhibition--they are still available but they will not help so much as they are out of date.

My advice to anyone who wants to play the Ponziani or against the Ponziani

--do not worry about the Fraser as that line does not give Black any advantage and is far too complicated and long to learn from either the Black or White side.

And yes, if you are rated under 2528 you can play the Ponziani for the rest of your life.  

However if you are rated 2400 or above, my suggestion is to also have an additional line at your disposal. [maybe the English]

Why?  Because someone might play the French Defense as Black and that is a very good defense and you can meet this with the English [1. c4]

[ this actually happened to me. I played a very strong player and he drew with the French Defense. The next game against him I played the English...] 

Ponz111 said, "There are only a very select few individuals who know the current best lines of the Fraser Defense against the  Ponziani."

So go ahead and play the Fraser, because unless you play one of these very few people, you will win using the Fraser and Ponz's online games as resources.

It is usually not a good idea to play a line with the hope that you will get an inferior response.

It is also usually not a good idea to play a line as complicated as the Fraser unless you know the line fairly well. 

It is also a bad idea to play a line with Black just because Ponz did  well with that line.  Theory comes and goes.    

Kantifields has Fraserophobia.  The only phobia which starts with the letter "F".

Please be careful while around kantifields as some say Fraserophobia might be catching.

It is bad for your mental health!

And you do know about bad mental health.

Truth be told... I would never play the Fraser OTB and I certainly would not fear it.  In correspondence play (non-centaur), the Fraser is quite formidable.  Unfortunately there are many players one might face claiming to play correspondance while actually engaging in Centaur play. 

There are two types of correspondence play now. One which allows engines and one which does not allow engines.  ICCF Correspondence gives titles and makes the top 50 USA list and that type of correspondence play allows engines.

I believe chess.com correspondence play does not allow engines.

However chess.com does allow not rated exhibitions where engines are allowed and encouraged. I gave two of these exhibitions.

Kantifields, I have seen you as a leader of Ponziani Power Vote Chess, encourage them to play a bad move, just to avoid the Fraser.  This was a prime example of Fraserophobia. 

Why do you insist on reaching out to me? 

We tried ot a couple of lines... so what?  You were on the opposing team.  Yes we loss and nearly the entire team that opposed us has since been banned for cheating.  What does that say?  I know... you don't cheat... your notes are on little pieces of paper sprawled about somewhere.

I watched you lead the same team down a known line that loses... which was worse?  That loss bothered you so much tht you never played a bad move again.  How do you explain that?

If you will notice, I only helped with a few moves on that game. I then noticed in a couple of other games there was a member on our team who I knew was cheating. I then informed the leader/Administrator and he did not believe me. So, I took myself out of that team in protest. Some months later the one person was caught cheating and the Administrator resigned all games and disbanded the vote chess team.

 Yes, when I was a player in Ponziani Power we lost a game early. The Administrator of the other team said he should have resigned the game as two people on his team were cheating. [I don't know why he did not resign the game]

 Later, Ponziani Power had a  short winning streak and I left the team.

Yes, it bothers me when I suggest a bad move. There were a whole lot of reasons we had that short winning streak before I left. Mostly because the other teams had little knowledge of the Ponziani and they were overwhelmed right in the opening.

That's a pretty rosy and one-sided revisionist history.  Both teams were cheating and almost every single move for both teams turned out to be a T1 engine choice.  Ponziani Power's main cheater fled the scene before getting caught (by disappearing at the first mentions of cheating and deleting his account), and that's why Ponziani Power lost quickly in the end.  Bobby Fischer Group's "leader" for that game got banned during the game also.  I have not played any games for BFG since that game, because their admin refuses to do anything about cheaters even with overwhleming evidence.

This is all chronicled in great detail in the 100+ page votechess league cheating thread from a year or two ago.

btickler refers to something which happened with Ponziani Power some months after I left the team.  I am not sure if their leader was using an engine or not? but they were playing a very bad line and were losing very early and also when the game ended.  Not sure how chess engines tell people to play losing lines?

In any event, some people cheating, has little to do with the soundness of the Fraser Variation of the Ponziani.

btickler, you are referring to a different game.  A player named expertise was part of ponz's study group.  I am not sure he was cheating... but it is possible.  the opposing team had a player that was almost certainly cheating.  Ponz was not on either team.

The game ponz is referring to is a game that he played against us.  He claims he realized his team was cheating so he left... that was around move 6 or 7.  We resigned many months later.  Ponz plea for fairness was slow if he telling the truth.  Why not tell us the team was cheating immediately so we would not waste our time? 

I am on another group and was involved in a vote chess game.  One of our players was banned for cheating.  We immediately informed the other team because that player had offered severl moves that were played.  We offered to resign.  The other team opted to play the game out.  They figured that since we had an IM and an FM on our team, the moves the fellow offered would have been played anyway.

So ponz brings up a game that I led my team into a loss as a way of making some petty comment, even though he knew that we lost that game to a team that was cheating?! 

Okay, if it was just another different game where cheating was suspected (?!), I guess I will just stay out of it ;)...

It's like a soap opera.  I would just quit the Ponziani as an opening altogether and call it a day...in fact, I did.

Kantifields, you know very well one reason why I did not inform your team that I thought one person on a team I was on was cheating.

The Super Administrator of your team and I had a falling out and he banned me from contact.  The Super Administrator was telling people that a certain person had sabotaged Ponziani Power.  That person pleaded with me that he was innocent and would I help him prove his innocence?

I did help the guy and we actually proved his innocence.  Thus the Super of Ponziani Power and I had a falling out and he put on a ban on communication. 

Please stop posting nonsense.  We can talk about chess if you would like.

Personally, I would rather not converse with you at all. But you post so much junk that sometimes I feel the need to respond.

http://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/ponz-says-he-can-refute-ponziani

Thanks for posting where those games were played. 

But remember, while the games were new theory at the time--they are now somewhat "old theory".

Kantifields, did you do an add on to what shkrelis posted?