Ponziani Opening

Hi apex

Hi moonie, Do you really think your example of someone you know is really an anology?

Often in the Ponziani White has a small space advantage combined with a small development advantage and the two together amount to a "normal first move advantage"

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How about transposing into the Ponziani with a different move order:

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 c3

                   or

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3

                  or

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 d6 4.c3

There are a few variations that all apparently give White a small advantage in space and development which combined translate into White's first move (initiative/attack) advantage.  It is just a matter of shifting White's initial Classical method of controlling the center to the Hypermodern method.  Black's first clue that White is going to do that is 4.c3 

@Transpo. Looks like a transposition to the Italian game.

@ponz111 and why is that ? He seems to think the Qf6 is very strong, He is an IM and he wrote a book about it. Shrug

Sorry, you were posting in response to ponz111.

But, back to your response to my post.  After 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.d3 is the Italian game. 

Thot I posted some comments but they seem to be lost.

One cannot transpose to the Ponziani after playing

Bc4 as

Bc4 is not played all that much in the Ponziani.

Where does someone get that I think "the QF6 is very strong??"

And where does someone get that I said I am an IM? I did have a rating but that is another story altogether.

There is a team called Ponziani Power and they are playing some vote chess games with the opening  1. e4  e5  2. Nf3  Nc6  3. c3  d5. I am a member of that team.

I would like to defend the Ponziani Opening by playing but I just am unable to do this. I have been hospitalized [and also resided in a nursing home] several times in the past year and my health is too poor.

Those who say the Ponziani is a bad opening because on the 3rd move

White plays 3. c3 taking a square away from the knight--just do not have a good understanding of the complex Ponziani Opening .

The person who indicated that he plays correspondence chess and that I have not played good enough players blah blah blah--If he knew my

correspondence record he would not say that.  [at least I do not think he would be dumb enough to say that]

But by your own statement it is played.  Even though 3.Bc4 loses tempo as opposed to 3.Bb5 in the Ruy Lopez. White in the Ruy Lopez gets to play d4 in one move in the Italian Game he has to play d3 then d4.  But in this transposed move order of Ponziani even if Black plays 3...Nf6 White still plays 4.c3 instead of 4.d3 as in the Italian game.  White is pseudo-sacking a pawn.

You lost me--whoever posted that someone can transpose to the Ponziani?

Give example.  But in any event, in general, it cannot be done except in exceptional [double negative?] cases!

Regarding the lines in blue. What you are doing is playing a quiet line of the

Giuoco Piano which in some regards is similar to the Ponziani and in some regards it is not. Often in the Ponziani White gets a small space advantage and a small lead in development but this is mostly in the non 3. c3 d5

lines. The lines after 1. e4  e5  2. Nf3  Nc6  3. c3  d5  4. Qa4 in the Ponziani

have a whole theory behind them not so related to other Ponziani lines.

Against the Ponziani, one of the best moves is playing d5 after c3.  The Ponziani is similar to the alapin variation of the sicilian, and d5 is the recommended move there.

4.Qa4 looks dubious to me.  Where as after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Qe2 is a much better square to deploy the Q in order to directly defend the e4 pawn and you can still play c3 next or later.  Play a Ponziani/Giuocco Piano, akin to the Najdorf/Scheveningen.  4...Nd4?! Nxd4

transpo you are trying to tranpose to a Ponziani?? I am starting to think you do not have a clue??  Now the Ponziani [being only 3 moves] can transpose into opening of more than 3 moves  -- here is an example

1. e4  e5  2. Nf3  Nc6  3. c3  Nf6  4. d4  exd4 5. e5  Ne4 6. Qe2 and now we have a variation of the Goring Gambit Declined.

tramspo now I am certain you do not have a clue...[with your 3. c3  d5

4. Qa4 looks dubious to you]

Well, why don't we let someone, say your assistant or some strong player play the Black side after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Qe2 or after the line I prefer 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.c3 (indirectly defends the e4 pawn.)  It is similar to how White defends the e4 pawn indirectly in the Ruy Lopez with 0-0.

I do see after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.c3 Nf6 4.Bc4 and We have transposed in to the same line that I have been proposing 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.c3

Of course with my move order it is White to move and he has the option of 4.c3 or 4.Qe2.  Also the Q on e2 is not blocking in the B on f1 as in the Goring Gambit Declined 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.c3 Nf6 4.d4 exd4 5.Ne4 Qe2 and you still have the pawn at d2 to drive the N on e4 away from his post if Black defenfs with d5 or f5.

Try playing the Ponziani/Giuocco Piano.  1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.c3 or Qe2

there are many traps in the opening, like this. i like the opening, but it seems to be for players -2000.