Ponziani Opening

I am sorry but I have a condition where I get confused unless some of the prior moves are given.  not sure about 12. ...Qf6 what position?

I will try maybe a better version

instead of10. Qxb7  Nxh1  11. Na3  0-0  12. Bg5

I will try  10. Qxb7  Nxh1 11. a4  a5  12. Na3

Oh, I see you mean Qf6 in the weird diagrammed position  White will play Kg1 and unwind his minor pieces--once unwound they can be very strong.

The position is rather unique I think however

I call this the GM Ara Minasian line because he tried it against me, among many others.

[Event "ICC 3 0"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2012.09.12"]
[Round "-"]
[White "AraMin"]
[Black "ChristoferP"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ICCResult "White forfeits on time"]
[WhiteElo "2046"]
[BlackElo "2110"]
[Opening "Ponziani: Fraser defense"]
[ECO "C44"]
[NIC "KP.05"]
[Time "17:02:03"]
[TimeControl "180+0"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. c3 Nf6 4. d4 Nxe4 5. d5 Bc5 6. dxc6 Bxf2+ 7. Ke2 Bb6
8. Qd5 Nf2 9. cxb7 Bxb7 10. Qxb7 Nxh1 11. Be3 O-O 12. Nbd2 c6 13. Nc4 Bxe3
14. Kxe3 Rb8 15. Qxa7 e4 16. Nfe5 Qh4 17. Kd2 d5 18. Kc2 Qxh2 19. Nxf7 Ng3
20. Ncd6 Nxf1 21. Rxf1 Qxg2+ 22. Rf2 Qg6 23. Nf5 e3 24. Rf3 e2 25. Kd2 e1=Q+
26. Kxe1 Qe6+ 27. Kd2 Rxb2+ {White forfeits on time} 0-1



http://www.chessvideos.tv/chess-game-replayer.php?id=70134

Minasian - Wall click and move

[Event "SVK-chT3B 0203"]
[Site "Slovakia"]
[Date "2003.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Chovanec, Milan"]
[Black "Packa, Ladislav"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C44"]
[WhiteElo "2137"]
[BlackElo "2251"]
[Annotator "Joe Eversole Variation of the English Opening"]
[PlyCount "71"]
[EventDate "2002.10.??"]
[EventType "team"]
[EventRounds "11"]
[EventCountry "SVK"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2004.11.15"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. c3 Nf6 4. d4 Nxe4 5. d5 Bc5 6. dxc6 Bxf2+ 7. Ke2 Bb6 8.
Qd5 Nf2 9. cxb7 Bxb7 10. Qxb7 O-O 11. Bg5 f6 12. Qd5+ Kh8 13. Be3 Nxh1 14. Bxb6
axb6 15. Na3 Ra5 16. Qd2 d5 17. g3 Qd7 18. Bg2 e4 19. Rxh1 exf3+ 20. Bxf3 d4
21. Qxd4 Qe6+ 22. Kf2 Qxa2 23. Nc4 Rc5 24. Be2 Rf5+ 25. Kg2 b5 26. Qe4 Rg5 27.
h4 Rg6 28. Qe7 Qa8+ 29. Bf3 Qb8 30. Ne3 Re8 31. Qc5 Re5 32. Qd4 c5 33. Qf4 Rh6
34. Ng4 g5 35. Qd2 gxh4 36. Qxh6 1-0

• 
  [Event "SVK-chT3B 0203"]
  [Site "Slovakia"]
  [Date "2003.??.??"]
  [Round "?"]
  [White "Chovanec, Milan"]
  [Black "Packa, Ladislav"]
  [Result "1-0"]
  [ECO "C44"]
  [WhiteElo "2137"]
  [BlackElo "2251"]
  [Annotator "Joe Eversole Variation of the English Opening"]
  [PlyCount "71"]
  [EventDate "2002.10.??"]
  [EventType "team"]
  [EventRounds "11"]
  [EventCountry "SVK"]
  [Source "ChessBase"]
  [SourceDate "2004.11.15"]
  
  1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. c3 Nf6 4. d4 Nxe4 5. d5 Bc5 6. dxc6 Bxf2+ 7. Ke2 Bb6 8.
  Qd5 Nf2 9. cxb7 Bxb7 10. Qxb7 O-O 11. Bg5 f6 12. Qd5+ Kh8 13. Be3 Nxh1 14. Bxb6
  axb6 15. Na3 Ra5 16. Qd2 d5 17. g3 Qd7 18. Bg2 e4 19. Rxh1 exf3+ 20. Bxf3 d4
  21. Qxd4 Qe6+ 22. Kf2 Qxa2 23. Nc4 Rc5 24. Be2 Rf5+ 25. Kg2 b5 26. Qe4 Rg5 27.
  h4 Rg6 28. Qe7 Qa8+ 29. Bf3 Qb8 30. Ne3 Re8 31. Qc5 Re5 32. Qd4 c5 33. Qf4 Rh6
  34. Ng4 g5 35. Qd2 gxh4 36. Qxh6 1-0

   

  David Taylor line
  
  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  [Event "ICC 1 0"]
  [Site "Internet Chess Club"]
  [Date "2010.04.07"]
  [Round "?"]
  [White "Jamomo"]
  [Black "B-Wall"]
  [Result "0-1"]
  [ECO "C44"]
  [WhiteElo "1856"]
  [BlackElo "1924"]
  [PlyCount "60"]
  [EventDate "2010.??.??"]
  [TimeControl "60"]
  
  1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. c3 Nf6 4. d4 Nxe4 5. d5 Bc5 6. dxc6 Bxf2+ 7. Ke2 Bb6 8.
  Qd5 Nf2 9. cxb7 Bxb7 10. Qxb7 Nxh1 11. Be3 O-O 12. Bxb6 axb6 13. g3 e4 14. Nd4
  Qg5 15. Bg2 Nxg3+ 16. hxg3 Qxg3 17. Bxe4 Rae8 18. Nd2 f5 19. Qd5+ Kh8 20. Nxf5
  Qf4 21. Rf1 Rxf5 22. Qxf5 Qxf5 23. Rxf5 c6 24. Kf3 d5 25. Bd3 g6 26. Rh5 gxh5
  27. Nf1 Rf8+ 28. Kg3 Rg8+ 29. Kh4 Rf8 30. Ne3 Rf3 {White forfeits on time} 0-1

   

  David Taylor line
  
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  [Event "ICC 1 0"]
  [Site "Internet Chess Club"]
  [Date "2010.05.20"]
  [Round "?"]
  [White "enog"]
  [Black "B-Wall"]
  [Result "0-1"]
  [ECO "C44"]
  [WhiteElo "2006"]
  [BlackElo "2034"]
  [PlyCount "88"]
  [EventDate "2010.??.??"]
  [TimeControl "60"]
  
  1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. c3 Nf6 4. d4 Nxe4 5. d5 Bc5 6. dxc6 Bxf2+ 7. Ke2 Bb6 8.
  Qd5 Nf2 9. cxb7 Bxb7 10. Qxb7 Nxh1 11. Bg5 f6 12. Bh4 O-O 13. Nbd2 d5 14. Qa6
  d4 15. cxd4 exd4 16. Qd3 Re8+ 17. Kd1 Qd5 18. Qc4 Rad8 19. Qxd5+ Rxd5 20. Bc4
  c6 21. Bxd5+ cxd5 22. Rc1 d3 23. Rc6 Nf2+ 24. Bxf2 Bxf2 25. Rd6 Bb6 26. Rxd5
  Re2 27. g3 Rg2 28. Rxd3 h5 29. a4 h4 30. gxh4 Kh7 31. b4 Kg6 32. a5 Bg1 33.
  Nxg1 Rxg1+ 34. Kc2 Rh1 35. Rg3+ Kh6 36. Rg2 f5 37. Nf3 f4 38. Ne5 Ra1 39. Kb2
  Ra4 40. Kb3 Ra1 41. Kb2 Rf1 42. Ng6 f3 43. Rg3 Rb1+ 44. Kxb1 f2 {White
  forfeits on time} 0-1
  
  David Taylor line
  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
  --

• 7 days ago · Quote · Edit · Delete · #1111

  BrianWall 

  
  [Event "US Womens' Championship"]
  [Site "Tulsa USA"]
  [Date "2008.05.13"]
  [EventDate "2008.05.13"]
  [Round "1"]
  [Result "0-1"]
  [White "Esther Epstein"]
  [Black "Batchimeg Tuvshintugs"]
  [ECO "C44"]
  [WhiteElo "2184"]
  [BlackElo "2278"]
  [PlyCount "74"]
  
  1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. c3 Nf6 4. d4 Nxe4 5. d5 Bc5 6. dxc6
  Bxf2+ 7. Ke2 Bb6 8. Qd5 Nf2 9. Bg5 f6 10. Nxe5 Qe7 11. cxd7+
  Bxd7 12. Qxd7+ Qxd7 13. Nxd7 Kxd7 14. Be3 Rae8 15. Kxf2 Rxe3
  16. g3 Rxc3+ 17. Ke2 Rc2+ 18. Kd3 Rxb2 19. Bh3+ Ke7 20. Re1+
  Kf7 21. Be6+ Kg6 22. Nc3 Rd8+ 23. Nd5 Rb5 24. Ke4 Re8 25. Kf3
  Ba5 26. Reb1 Rc5 27. Rxb7 Kh6 28. Bd7 Rd8 29. Be6 Re8 30. Bd7
  Re5 31. Nf4 Rc3+ 32. Kg4 g5 33. Rxa7 gxf4 34. gxf4 Rh5 35. Rh1
  Bb6 36. Ra8 Rch3 37. Rf8 f5+ 0-1
  
  www.chessvideos.tv/chess-game-replayer.php?id=36949
  
  posted to Facebook

   

  Loek Bergman line
  
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Information about chimegdee(WIM) (Last disconnected Sat Apr 24 2010 14:38):
  
  rating [need] win loss draw total best
  Bullet 1916 [8] 23 12 0 35 1919 (16-Jul-2008)
  Blitz 2260 [8] 233 251 23 507 2418 (02-Dec-2006)
  
  1: WIM Batchimeg Tuvshintugs
  
  Name : Tuvshintugs, Batchimeg
  Groups : WIMs
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  ---------------------------------
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
  

• 7 days ago · Quote · Edit · Delete · #1112

  BrianWall 

  [Event "ICC 3 0"]
  [Site "Internet Chess Club"]
  [Date "2011.03.24"]
  [Round "-"]
  [White "HolyLight"]
  [Black "B-Wall"]
  [Result "0-1"]
  [ICCResult "White disconnected and forfeits"]
  [WhiteElo "1825"]
  [BlackElo "2030"]
  [Opening "Ponziani: Fraser defense"]
  [ECO "C44"]
  [NIC "KP.05"]
  [Time "04:54:24"]
  [TimeControl "180+0"]
  
  1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. c3 Nf6 4. d4 Nxe4 5. d5 Bc5 6. dxc6 Bxf2+ 7. Ke2 Bb6
  8. Qd5 Nf2 9. cxb7 Bxb7 10. Qxb7 Nxh1 11. Be3 O-O 12. Bxb6 axb6 13. Na3 d5
  14. Rd1 Ra5 15. Rd2 e4 16. Nd4 Qh4 17. g3 Qxh2+ 18. Kd1 Qg1 19. Nc6 Qxf1+
  20. Kc2 Rc5 21. Ne7+ Kh8 22. Nxd5 Nf2 23. Ne3 Qe1 24. Ng2 Qg1 25. Nf4 Qxg3
  26. Nd5 Nd3 27. Nc4 Rxc4 {White disconnected and forfeits} 0-1

  
  

  David Taylor line

• 7 days ago · Quote · Edit · Delete · #1113

  BrianWall 

   

tons of Fraser Defense games and analysis at BrianWallChess@Yahoogroups.com messages

BrianWall  did anyone ever play  10. Qxb7  0-0  11. Qxb6 against you?

[not that it is crucial]

dave/ponz 

Brian,

Is it possible for you to post the games with a board.  If not I will do it.

Kanti

haven't figured out how to do it here yet - sorry, me slow dummy

Of course I would not play 11. Be3 but having said that:

Here comes Brian Wall

looking for the truth above all

He plays the Fraser

Is it a curtain raiser?

The man is uncanny

with the line vs the Ponziani

Many have looked for solutions

to counter his contributions

But all have failed

Brian has prevailed!

Brian,

1. Copy moves of the game (highlight moves the Ctrl C)

2. Click on

3. Click Game or sequence of moves

4. Click "continue"

5. Paste moves in PGN box (Ctrl V)

6. Click insert (or continue to add more info)

If you scroll through the game before you insert, you can add comments.

I have a rules question.  I am about to go into a queen versus rook endgame.  Is it a violation for meto play random queen vs. rook games against a program of some kind or to review endgame articles on  the matter.

I will post the game when it is finished as it is a Ponziani.

Endgame books and articles are fine, playing vs computer is not.

ok.  I will try on my own, then I will head to google.

I may not be posting very much for a while but really admire Brian Wall and his experience playing the Fraser and playing the Ponziani both Black and White.

The line I gave vs the Fraser is just very preliminary analysis with out a very good chess engine and they are other similar lines and I see now that the start of my line has been played before.  [why wouldn't it have been played before]  But played somewhat differently before [I think]

Really love this position which may basically be equal but in the sense the start of a chess game is going to result in a draw with best play.

My favorite thing about the Fraser Defense is the endless imbalances - that's why I am envious of the the gorgeous Fraser Defense games that will occur after I die - I know some real beauties will come out of this.