Ponziani Opening

Looking in my records--I have considered 4. exf5  Qf6 and there are several tries against it. My senility made me forget previous analysis but It is still there.

It will be interesting to see which line works [if any]

I will look for the youtube analysis.  If I find it I will post the link.

Firebrand

Nobody said it was. I said I had hardly looked at it but I was wrong as I did not remember that I had analyzed the move pretty well.

Curious as to what is your line vs 3. c3  f5  4. exf5  Qf6  5. Bb5  [which I think may not work] 

If I understand this particular line after 7. Qh5+  g6  8. fxg6  hxg6

9. Qe2  While Black can play 9. ...Bd7  and 10..... 0-0-0  Remember

White is up a pawn.  And while initial computer analysis seem to give

Black a slight edge--as more moves are made White has his pieces on fairly good squares and seems to consolidate and then gradually take the advantage.  Black has to prove he has compensation for the pawn and

this is not easy to do. 

Ponziani for White

Wikipedia Ponziani

In 2010 Life Master Brian Wall refuted the Ponziani by reviving the George Brunton Fraser defense.

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. c3 Nf6 4. d4 Nxe4 5. d5 Bc5 6. dxc6 Bxf2+ 7. Ke2 Bb6 8.Qd5 Nf2 9. Rg1 O-O 10. cxb7 Bxb7 11. Qxb7 Qf6 12. Qa6 Rae8

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponziani_Opening

Thanks for the games, FirebrandX. Although I played poorly it was still one of the most interesting openings I was ever a part of and I would try it OTB.

Firebrand, I think you are missing my point.  After 9. Qe2  Bd7  White is NOT to play 10. f3?

In the game between Brian and Firebrand, I thought 5. d3 was the correct continuation to play for a small advantage.  Am I mixing up my lines?

kant, 5. d3 would be a line to play for a small advantage but Brian wanted to try the other line.

The 5. d3 line could use some more testing. I think it is a little better than its reputation of being an easy draw...

An easy draw is unlikely except maybe in Centaur chess.  That is the line I play.  I deviated from it in a recent game because I have been studying lots of computer analysis on that line so I felt it would be unfair.

Although now I wish I had played the 5.d3 line because my 2 games against my tournament opponent are mirror images (boring).

I will have to re-think my position on avoiding computer analysis during games.  As one of my teamates pointed out, I would also need to avoid using opening books since they generally contain substantial computer analysis.

That is one reaason I really like the book Play the Ponziani.  The lines may be computer vetted, but they are quite human from inception and the authors follow human games and make suggestions for improvements.  Also, the book is quite thorough.

After tons of triple checking every evaluation using this site, to my eye, there is only 1 major revision, and a small number of minor revisions needed.

The major revision is a mainline choice that loses for white (a true refutation exists).

The biggest minor revision is the conclusion that the Fraser defense will likely result in a forced draw with best play by white (sorry Brian, but to me this is not a refutation and Wikipedia needs to be corrected).

The mainline version that loses for White is this:

It is quite difficult to construct a comprehensive book on a seldom played opening which has little theory and  what theory is there is incorrect.

Most opening books are only one one variation of an opening or a book giving only one side such as White to win with...

Just to do 1/2 page took many days of analysis.

I will give much praise to my co author Keith Hayward who took over and did the dialog [and more] when I became quite ill.

Well Dave you and Keith did a great job in my opinion.

Here is the only contested loss of the Ponziani Power group:

7. 0-0 loses.  [I am pretty sure I posted this in the Ponziani Power Group before I left]  You have to play either  7. d4  or  5. d3 earlier.

White really has almost no chance after 7. 0-0  e4

Brian, did you really put that your drawing line refutes the Ponziani in wikpedia?  

White should be able to draw the position after:

Sorry, put in the wrong move order for the game: it was 16...Qb7 17. Bf4 c5 18. Qd1 Bb5 and black resigned.

Well, good chances I am wrong again, but when I take a look at the position after 7.. e4 in post 1468, then do I think that the move 8. Bxc6 is strong.

Already found a mistake. After 9. .. f5 can white not play d3, because of Qxd3. White has to block the access of field d3 for the queen first. Logical move is Nd4.

ponz111