Preventing the Caro-kann advance?

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henriques3

I used to be quite fond of the potential of the Caro-kann defence.

However, when 1 ... c6 is followed with 2. d4 d5, this often results in 3. e5. This position soon becomes very cramped for me (as black).  

What is the best way to prevent issues with space in the Caro-kann? Thank you

henriques3

My usual response to 3. e5 is 3 ... f6. I know that this move is 'hope chess' in relying on them to either take on f6 or push to e6. I don't like relying on the moves of the opponent in this way, which is why I have been beginning to lose faith in the Caro-Kann. 

If there is no move off of e5 (ie continue development, or in some cases I see 4. f4), I would still try to develop to a kingside castling.  

 

I know that there is probably something fundamentally wrong with how I am approaching this opening, so please help! Thanks again. 

Yigor

If U need more space and don't know how to handle advance variations, just don't play French and Caro-Kann. tongue.png

henriques3
Yigor wrote:

If U need more space and don't know how to handle advance variations, just don't play French and Caro-Kann.

Yeah that's probably a good idea. I think I just began to like the Caro-Kann because it was suggested to me for my 'chess personality' test. I have thought of playing the Sicilian more, or even just maintaining more standard openings like the Ruy Lopez, Italian or Philidor. 

Honestly I really don't know, because there are so many possibilities!cry.png 

Yigor
henriques3 wrote:
Yigor wrote:

If U need more space and don't know how to handle advance variations, just don't play French and Caro-Kann.

Yeah that's probably a good idea. I think I just began to like the Caro-Kann because it was suggested to me for my 'chess personality' test. I have thought of playing the Sicilian more, or even just maintaining more standard openings like the Ruy Lopez, Italian or Philidor. 

Honestly I really don't know, because there are so many possibilities! 

 

Well, Philidor is kinda passive and suboptimal. Play 1...c5 or 1...e5 on 1. e4 and 2...Nc6 on 2. Nf3. It will restrict your options in open games. wink.png

henriques3
Yigor wrote: Play 1...c5 or 1...e5 on 1. e4 and 2...Nc6 on 2. Nf3. It will restrict your options in open games.

Thank you

 

Bramblyspam

Or you can just figure out a decent way to handle the Caro advance. Typically black plays 3... Bf5, 4... e6, and at some point plays the pawn break c5. 

3... f6 is flat-out terrible, if that's what you've been playing then it's no wonder you don't like what happens. It's not even hope chess, it's despair chess: you're worsening your position in response to phantom threats. As white, I wouldn't even capture on f6. I'd probably play Bd3, preventing you from playing Bf5.  The whole point of the Caro is to get that bishop outside the pawn chain before you play e6, so white is pretty much guaranteed to get a good game if he can stop that.

Note that after 4. Bd3, black can't even play 4... fxe5 because of 5. Qh5 g6 6. Bxg6. Yeah, black can play 5... Kd7 instead, but if you find yourself playing moves like that, you already know things are going terribly.

henriques3
Bramblyspam wrote:

Or you can just figure out a decent way to handle the Caro advance. Typically black plays 3... Bf5, 4... e6, and at some point plays the pawn break c5. 

3... f6 is flat-out terrible, if that's what you've been playing then it's no wonder you don't like what happens. It's not even hope chess, it's despair chess: you're worsening your position in response to phantom threats. As white, I wouldn't even capture on f6. I'd probably play Bd3, preventing you from playing Bf5.  The whole point of the Caro is to get that bishop outside the pawn chain before you play e6, so white is pretty much guaranteed to get a good game if he can stop that.

Note that after 4. Bd3, black can't even play 4... fxe5 because of 5. Qh5 g6 6. Bxg6. Yeah, black can play 5... Kd7 instead, but if you find yourself playing moves like that, you already know things are going terribly.

Thank you so much!! I knew that something was terribly wrong, I just didn't know that it was f5 not f6 that was the key square. Hopefully now I can have more active games with the Caro-Kann now happy.png

Chessflyfisher
Bramblyspam wrote:

Or you can just figure out a decent way to handle the Caro advance. Typically black plays 3... Bf5, 4... e6, and at some point plays the pawn break c5. 

3... f6 is flat-out terrible, if that's what you've been playing then it's no wonder you don't like what happens. It's not even hope chess, it's despair chess: you're worsening your position in response to phantom threats. As white, I wouldn't even capture on f6. I'd probably play Bd3, preventing you from playing Bf5.  The whole point of the Caro is to get that bishop outside the pawn chain before you play e6, so white is pretty much guaranteed to get a good game if he can stop that.

Note that after 4. Bd3, black can't even play 4... fxe5 because of 5. Qh5 g6 6. Bxg6. Yeah, black can play 5... Kd7 instead, but if you find yourself playing moves like that, you already know things are going terribly.

Well said my teammate on C-K Vote Chess! I think that henriques3 should join the Caro-Kann groups and learn from being in those games.

henriques3
IamaPhoneyGM wrote:

If you look into the main ideas of the French advance it will serve you well as you are essentially playing the same opening but with an active bishop. Not saying learn the French but watching a few videos wont hurt.

I might have a look at the French advance as well. Expanding my opening repertoire could do me some good.

henriques3
IamaPhoneyGM wrote:

Just don't play like this. 

 

 
As a French player I welcome the advance variation. Surely it is the same for Caro Kann players as you no longer have a bad bishop. But yeah listen to the NM he knows what he is talking about.

 

Haha yeah of course! It would be silly for me to ignore the advice of any master. 

kponds

the advance variation is the main line nowadays, you have to either learn to play against it, or one alternative is to play Scandinavian defense with Qd6 or Qd6, where you will get Caro like structure without the advance variation (the cost is that you are down a tempo). never play ...f6, that's a horrible idea.

henriques3
kponds wrote:

the advance variation is the main line nowadays, you have to either learn to play against it, or one alternative is to play Scandinavian defense with Qd6 or Qd6, where you will get Caro like structure without the advance variation (the cost is that you are down a tempo). never play ...f6, that's a horrible idea.

Thank you. I might persevere with the Caro-Kann advance for now - without playing f6

MickinMD

Yes, you do get closed, slightly cramped positions in the Advance Variation of the Caro-Kann after 1 e4 c6 2 d4 d5 3 e5.

But play 3...Bf5 so you don't get too cramped, then ...e6 and ...Nd7, not necessarily in that order.  The best way to attack a Pawn Chain is at its base, which means you want to play ...c5 as soon as is reasonable.  But if White does a lot of support of d4, you can also attack White's e5 pawn with ...f6.  Note that your QN on d7 supports c5, f6, or even b6 if White manages to push his c-Pawn.

Note that ....c5 and an attack by Black by pushing Pawns on the Q-side is the usual counterattack Black makes against the Advance Variation (3 e5).