Problems playing with Black

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Avatar of Apathy

Basically, I can play fine with white, my favorite opening is the Ruy Lopez/Spanish Game. The problem is with Black though. I just don't know any good counter-attacks. I will summarize my playing style and what happens in the games and if anyone could reccomend an opening in response to 1. e4 I would be greatful.

What happens when I play Black:

-White will always have more control of the center

-I have no opening attacks in my repetoir for Black. For example, with white I will open with the Ruy Lopez which I consider an opening attack. Also, with white I can attack f7 square and the d7 square(if the opponent's queen is out).

-I often find myself transitioning into the end game with a poor pawn structure against white. I will either be down a pawn or have two pawns doubled up on the same file.

My playing style:

-I like to find a good opening and memorize it and then use it to transition to the middle game with the best position possible.

-I enjoy controlling the center and having room to attack. When I'm cramped in my base I often have no ways of attacking and am just defending, which I often feel results in a loss.

-I just don't know how to control the center as black. I wouldn't mind playing a closed game and playing positional, but I'm not experienced enough right now to understand how I would go about doing that.

 

If you guys have any resources on the internet you could link me to or books that will help me learn what ever opening you suggest that would also be greatly appreciated. When I play with Black I feel like I have no plan and I'm just waiting and hoping I find something, whereas with White I will use the Spanish game and in general feel like I have more plans I will think of at the start.

Avatar of migrated

Since you enjoy playing the Ruy Lopez as white, why not play it as black? You should know both sides of the opening pretty well in this case, and I think you would do well. It does give some center control, but you must really capitalize and develop on the opening.

Might I also point out that not all openings by black is to try and control the center. If you want some center control, then I suggest the French Defense in response to 1. e4. That is, 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5

I hope this helps.

Avatar of machinecraig

I know you enjoy controlling the center - but you might try a few games using the Sicillian. It's a great opening for Black, with good development, lots of attack possibilities, etc. I found it very easy to get into and I'm a fan of playing 1.e4 as White. Good luck!

Avatar of DrizztD
machinecraig wrote:

I know you enjoy controlling the center - but you might try a few games using the Sicillian. It's a great opening for Black, with good development, lots of attack possibilities, etc. I found it very easy to get into and I'm a fan of playing 1.e4 as White. Good luck!


Seconded! The Sicilian is solid and fun! But it may not be your style. You could also try the French, as stated earlier, but that, similar to the Sicilian, leads to cramped positions.

Avatar of eaglex

if you play ruy lopez as white why not play it as black too

maybe try the marshall attack variation black gets a lot of actvity for only a pawn

very hard for white to prove any advantage 

its 1e4 e5

2nf3 nc6

3bb5 a6

4ba4 nf6

5o-o be7

6re1 b5

7 bb3 c3

8 d5

Avatar of ReedRichards

The "Spanish game"- black or white...I also like the "Petroff Defence".

Avatar of Apathy

Thanks for all the replies. What are some characteristics of the Sicilian, French, etc? This would help me in choosing a opening. Also, when using the Sicilian for example, what exactly am I looking for? I could just follow memorized lines to some degree, but what are some attacks I'm looking for? King side or Queen side, any weak pawns I could take advantage of, etc. Details like this would help greatly in deciding what opening would match my style of play.

As for playing the spanish game with black, I don't like the position I get in.

I also have another random question: what are good positional advantages to look for in the opening? For example, trading pieces in order to mess up the opponents pawns, or perhaps key spaces I should be aware of.

Avatar of ArtNJ
Estragon wrote:

Spend less time worrying about memorizing opening lines, and more time practicing tactics and learning endgames, and the rest will take care of itself.


 +1.  Your only 1346 on this site.  Thats indicative of relatively undeveloped tactics.  You can memorize openings all you want, and will gain at most 20-50 points from that no matter how many hours you spend.  Practice tactics, either here or at chesstempo.com and you'll get a much better yield.

There is some sort of interesting dynamic at work making advanced beginners/intermediate players always think they should study openings a lot, when its just not the best use of time. 

Avatar of PositionalAttack
ArtNJ wrote:
Estragon wrote:

Spend less time worrying about memorizing opening lines, and more time practicing tactics and learning endgames, and the rest will take care of itself.


 +1.  Your only 1346 on this site.  Thats indicative of relatively undeveloped tactics.  You can memorize openings all you want, and will gain at most 20-50 points from that no matter how many hours you spend.  Practice tactics, either here or at chesstempo.com and you'll get a much better yield.

There is some sort of interesting dynamic at work making advanced beginners/intermediate players always think they should study openings a lot, when its just not the best use of time. 


 I 100 percent agree with the people above me.  Don't worry about getting into 15 moves of theory because most likely you will drop a piece on move 16.  I suggest starting out with Yassier Seriwans Winning Chess Tactics.  If you want you could read the whole series there is 7 books.

Avatar of Atos

I agree that tactics is more important at this level, but still if someone is sitting at the board and wondering what to do against 1. e4 it will be a rough going.

Avatar of Sceadungen

Just play d5 against e4, start attacking and learn some tactics

against d4 play e5 the Englund Gambit, initially aim to learn use the power of your pieces.

Plenty of time to sort out an opening after trying these out in Blitz games to sharpen up.

Avatar of rrrttt

This one works

Avatar of pvmike

at your level I think this is a good plan for black

Avatar of Apathy

Thank you all again for the advice. I understand that good players are created through a great understanding of the endgame, but I just wanted to get some ideas of how to face 1. e4 as black. I will stop bothering with the opening because after due considerations I think it's a waste of time at my level.

I'll leave you all with one last question: What are your favorite types of attacks? for example: attacking the king side with your bishop pinning the pawn+following the attack with your queen and other bishop or perhaps you use your pieces in a coordinated attack on the queen side. These tactical attacks in the early middle/late opening are my favorite things to learn. Any responses will be appreciated as always.

Avatar of Atos
Apathy wrote:

Thank you all again for the advice. I understand that good players are created through a great understanding of the endgame, but I just wanted to get some ideas of how to face 1. e4 as black. I will stop bothering with the opening because after due considerations I think it's a waste of time at my level.

 


It's not a waste of time but it is difficult for us to give advice. There is a strong subjective factor about the openings, and my best opening could be completely wrong for you. You need to try out at least a few before you get to something that suits you.

Avatar of Apathy
Atos wrote:
Apathy wrote:

Thank you all again for the advice. I understand that good players are created through a great understanding of the endgame, but I just wanted to get some ideas of how to face 1. e4 as black. I will stop bothering with the opening because after due considerations I think it's a waste of time at my level.

 


It's not a waste of time but it is difficult for us to give advice. There is a strong subjective factor about the openings, and my best opening could be completely wrong for you. You need to try out at least a few before you get to something that suits you.


No need to worry I do understand that opening theory isn't a waste of time, I was just simplifying my understanding that at my level I need to work on endgame and tactics more than openings. At this point I'm just learning what exactly contitutes "good" and "bad" when it comes to the opening. After reading what everyone said and thinking about it I decided that in fact the main reason I'm not as good as others is because of my limited endgame knowledge and inexperience with tactical patterns.

The annotated games by josh waitzkin on chessmaster grandmaster edition are awesome btw, if you guys have chessmaster you should check them out their kind of like a hidden gem.