Problems with Caro-Kann advanced variation

Help from fellow CK players requested! I have difficulties refuting out-of-book moves by my opponents. Freqently, I end up crammed as black in the advance variation, often with problems developing my kingside.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Problem 1: How to best deal with an early Bd3? My trusted MCO lists Be2 as the only playable move (I think I have never encountered that move!)

Problem 2: How to deal with white pushing c4 early on? Like 1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 Bf5 4. Nf3 e6 5. c4?!

Problem 3: How does one deal with early Nd2-Nb3 delaying the c5 push (and sometimes even trying to place the knight at c5!). Say opponent plays Nd2 instead of Nf3, or possibly the move after that.

Problem 4: This applies to blitz games mostly: opponent going 4. g4 kicking my bishop around, i.e: 4. ... Be4 5. f3 Bg6 6. h4 h6 7. Bd3 Bxd3 8. Qxd3 e6 ... after f4 it does not look too appetizing to castle kingside for black. Generally I find g4 pesky, also when my knight finally gets to f5.

 Problem 5: My general development plan on the king side is Ne7-Nf5 and then Be7 followed by 0-0. Often this is too slow, and my opponent manages to launch an attack before I am castled. What's the usual path to getting castled?

Issue #1: Exchange it!  Happily!  You're playing a light square defense here, anyway.  Even though your bishop is out from behind the chain, it's not performing any crucial role for you, and the locked center is going to limit its scope for a while.  Likewise, the last thing white ought to want to do is lose his light square bishop.  It's like white solves your initial strategic problem for you, right out of the gate.

Problem #2: capture it.  The half-open file certainly isn't going to hurt you any, and losing the e-pawn doesn't compromise your pawn structure.  After Nd7 and Nb6, you're going to chase the bishop away from c4 anyway, and d5 is going to be a nice, juicy square on which to post a piece at some point.

Your trusted MCO is unfortunately only a very very abridged "Readers Digest" version of an openings encyclopedia. Trust me, I own BCO, ECO, MCO and NCO and all of them put together don't begin to equal my ChessBase BIG DB 2011 (5.3 million games with TWIC updates and still growing, every week) for current chess theory.

If you can afford to you need to graduate from MCO to something like ChessBase BIG DB from the last 3-4 years, which you can update yourself for free although it will be time-consuming. Otherwise you may need to start investing in specialized opening books. At any rate, it's about time to realize the MCO is NOT the alpha and the omega of opening theory...sorry to rain on your parade here.

BTW you could start looking up your own answers at the game explorer right here for starters, and at least get a clue as to what other players are doing in your positions and how well they're succeeding or failing with the moves they play.

Is this a joke? Ordinarily you must ask why would you choose to play a defence if you do not know the most basic opening moves? You would study it first or choose a different opening. Of course, there is nothing wrong with a beginner experimenting with any opening but you have rating of 2116. Even a player with a lowly rating like mine could figure out a reasonable course of action without an opening book. Why would you have any trouble at all? So....is this a joke?

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I think he IS studying it.  He chooses to study by playing, and learning as he goes.  That sounds a lot more fun to me than sitting next to a fireplace with some dry opening manual for weeks before taking to the chessboard.

Now, you could argue that anybody at this stage of development might be better off with 1...e5 and good, solid opening principles in place of theory.  But you could argue that having more fun and playing a defense he likes is more important, too.  Nobody improves when they get bored and quit, after all.

I'll only say on the disagreement for Problem #2 that my DB suggests I've got the weight of GM praxis behind me! :)

Seriously, though, there's plenty to be said for the "battle for tempo" idea.  All depends whether you like to crack the safe with sandpaper and a stethoscope, or prefer to simply use dynamite.  There's a lot of room for individual style in this game.  That's one of the great things about it.  :)

But anyone who's using Nigel Short for reference will always be okay in my book!  Love the way Short plays, and conincidentally, when I play the white side of the Caro, the Short system in the advance is my preferred methodology.  Huzzah!

Your first mistake is thinking that if it is not a book move then you should be able to refute it.  My advice is play chess.  Analyse the move for its strength and weaknees, but don't get a bad game by trying to refute an out of the book move.  White in particular can make second best moves, that allow you to equalize; but you will get in trouble if you try to refute them.

In Vassilios Kotronias states in  Beating the Caro-Kann:

   "I started playing the Advance in 1986; at that time nobody would accept that 5 Bd3!? could lead to some sort of game for White.  Today, I think that the move is worthy of an !? and tomorrow --who knows?  -- the evaluation might change again."

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 I think you're probably right, but after Bd3, black's choices are limited to exchanging, backing the B up or protecting it with the Q or g-pawn. I just find it a little odd that anyone with a 2100+ rating would bother to ask what the move is here.

Note that the maneuver for issue 1 of Qa5-Qa6 is I believe from Capablanca.

I must say, I'm surprised at the amount of support the don't-take-on-c4 idea seems to have generated.

I do agree that the delay, buildup, and preparation to both gain a tempo and contol d5 seems to mesh best with traditional understanding of strategy.

But in the particulars of this instance, ...dxc4 5.Bxc4 Nd7 6.Nc3 Nb6 7.Bb3 Ne7 seems to have black poised to handle all those problems quite nicely, and if black surrendered a tempo in capturing c4, he seems to have gotten it back by driving the bishop back to b3.  Which isn't exactly a dream square for white's piece, anyway...so maybe another tempo later on when he has to reposition it to c2.  Black controls d5 quite nicely, is set up for an easy Be7/0-0, and his game seems to be in fine shape.

All of which is only to say, I don't think it's fair to say black "must not take" in this instance.  Especially when the masters seem to have chosen it by a fair amount as their preferred move in the position in question.

Are we talking about the same line, here?  Because in the text, white has already commited to Nf3.  Just wondering if I'm seeing that correctly, and/or if that changes your evaluation...

 

(Edit: I see you edited your own to address this!)

Oh, and to the OP: I agree completely with the premise of holding off on the capture if white plays c4 on move 3.

Just sayin', so that you understand we're all kinda sorta on the same page, here. ;)

My book on this line, e4 c6 d4 d5 e5 Bf5 h4 h5 c4, had black play e6 Nc3 Nd7, which apparently is "threatening" ...dxc4, and then white plays cxd5! himself. Couple of points. Why would black not take on c4 one move earlier and then play Nd7? Note that the book did not address this. What's the big deal with black getting ...Nd5 anyway? Yeah d5 is a great square but it doesn't win the game. And note that anytime black plays ...dxc4, white gets access to a square (e4) which is arguably more valuable than d5, because after h4/h5 white can play Bg5 and this is a painful thorn for black or he can exchange it, but then that Ne4 now has access to d6.

SimpleJohn, pfren ozzie_c_cobblepot, zezpwn44, --a, FirebrandX, blake78613: Thank you for the input, comments and analysis. I can see this topic stirred up more discussion than I expected, which is good I guess.

Replying to each post and idea would be too much, so I'll summarize what (I think) I have learned:

Problem 1 (early Bd3): is not a problem, exchange bishops. I knew that already (my pawn chain is on light squares, hence my light square bishop is not as essential as the dark square one). My question was more regarding that my opening book(s) or databases (small free databases) does not contain Bd3. I thought there was some "obvious" way to refute it.

 Problem 2 (white plays c4): As black, this gives me the possibility to get my knight to d5 (Ne7 - Nd5).  There is also an interesting idea for white, where he plays Nge2-Nf4. Had not seen that one before.

Problem 3 ( white plays Bbd2-Nb3): Go ahead to play c5 anyway, since the push is implicitely guarded by Qa5+. I feel reluctant to trade my dark square bishop (for a knight!) when my pawn chain is on light squares. I'll try it in some blitz games and see how it really feels.

Problem 4 (white goes g4 kicking the bishop): Like pfren, my engine suggests going Bd7?! Also I've learned about black going h5 Nh6 to gain control of g4 in variants when white plays early f4 (I used to play Nh6, but did not "rub in" the g4 control with h5 first).

Problem 5 (slow kingside dev): nothing really enlightning has been said about that, more than what I already knew. That's the price to pay for the otherwise robust opening.

 I'll go through some of that material linked to now..

Note that the Nbd2-Nb3 variation is rather fashionable with the GMs these days. So it is a serious try for a white edge.

To the question "Is this a joke" my answer is: the only joke is chess.com's turn-based ratings.

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I'm not sure this is the thread to go accusing somebody of cheating.

This is the thread to discuss certain positional and theoretical ideas about the Caro advance.

Whether those questions make sense or not coming from a certain person is irrelevant here.  One can either contribute to the discussion, or one can't.  So be it.  I don't take ratings into account before posting.  I either know something that can help answer the question, or I don't.

A lot more people will read and take interest in the discussion than just the OP.  And I think it's relevant and valuable discussion.  For all those people, let's stay on topic, and leave our feelings about the OP out of it.  Leave the sleuthing to the sleuths.

This is the advance variation, black player just played C5....any good ideas about what should be played next for white? I often play a player who keeps on doing this...and destroys me almost every time...