Pushing e4 to e5 - engine says no

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Avatar of Heinkel111

I love pushing the e4 pawn to e5 if it is supported on d4.

I don't seem to do too badly out of it usually but according to the engine it is a bad move.

Here was a rapid game I played today.

Can anybody comment on why, in general, it is a bad move?

Avatar of IMKeto

3.e5

1. You have move the same piece twice in the opening when you didnt need to.  Black now has the lead in development.

2. You gave up control of d5-f5.

3. You no longer occupy the central e4 square.

4. Black can now chip away at your over entended pawn on e5 with 3...d6. And after 4.Nf3 you lose a pawn, or after 4.ed6 cd6, black has 2 center pawns vs. 1, or 4...Bd6 further increasing his lead in development.

Avatar of Heinkel111

Thanks for your thoughts FEF. I will ponder those lines.

Avatar of ChessBooster

3. E4-E5 is not bad move but it is not good enough , consider the position , you have more useful moves at this position (Nf3, Nc3, Be3...) that is why is considered "bad".

but this is not the reason why anybody should loose the game, by playing it. it just gives black some advantages.

Avatar of ChessBooster
FishEyedFools wrote

 

4. Black can now chip away at your over entended pawn on e5 with 3...d6. And after 4.Nf3 you lose a pawn, or after 4.ed6 cd6, black has 2 center pawns vs. 1,

 

this may arise from alekhine defese too very often, in sicilian black has E&D pawns vs E pawn, so not big drawback if you look in pawn structure.

Avatar of IMKeto
ChessBooster wrote:
FishEyedFools wrote

 

4. Black can now chip away at your over entended pawn on e5 with 3...d6. And after 4.Nf3 you lose a pawn, or after 4.ed6 cd6, black has 2 center pawns vs. 1,

 

this may arise from alekhine defese too very often, in sicilian black has E&D pawns vs E pawn, so not big drawback if you look in pawn structure.

You and I understand that, but the OP doesnt.  

Avatar of Strangemover

In the game in the first post after e5 the suggested move for black is d6. This threatens to take twice on e5 and you will be down a pawn so what to do? exd6 Bxd6 and now black had 2 pieces nicely developed vs 0 for you. Or support the pawn Nf3? But then dxe5 Nxe5 Nxe5 dxe5 Qxd1 Kxd1 no castling for you (maybe this is ok here but black is comfortable anyway). Or f4? But then f6 for black threatening the same things, either exchanging everything on e5 and Qxd1 or you have to capture exd6 or exf6 and black recaptures with a piece and is ahead in development. So black is able to undermine your advanced pawn and fully equalise at least. Therefore your pawn on e5 is a weakness because you cannot support it properly. 

Avatar of Martin0

The opening is about controlling the center, develop your pieces and get castled. e4-e5 does nothing of those things. It is also against opening principles to move the same piece more than once. d6 is a good response for black, but I'd rather want you to think that you are breaking opening principles, rather than "I should not play e5 because black can play d6". If someone asks the question "how do I punish the early e5 pawn pushers", then the answer would be d6 happy.png

 

Some cases where playing e4-e5 is ok:

You gain a tempo on a black knight on f6 (1.e4 Nf6 2.e5).

Your opponent is attacking your center with d7-d5. To prevent your opponent from playing d5xe4 you close the center with e4-e5 and gain space in a closed position (1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3. Nc3 Bb4 4.e5).

 

In short, don't move the same piece twice unless you have a good reason to.

Avatar of destru2

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Avatar of RubenHogenhout

For example after 

 
Then 5.e5 is a good move and it attacks the knight on f6.