Queen's vs. Bogo Indians

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Narmi_Helas

Why do people play the Bogo Indian as opposed to the Queen's Indian?

I have tried googling this question but did not come up with much besides the Bogo Indian's move order. Is it more aggresive? What appeals to people in the Bogo Indian that makes them choose it over the Queen's Indian?

Also how should white handle the Bogo Indian when it plays against it and how does the Bogo Indian do against the Catalan?

moonnie

Bogo indian has less (and easier) theory than queens indian. You also get to avoid some of the dangerous pawn sacs that are possible in certain variations of the queens indian.

This solidness comes with a price however. In general black is a little passive in the bogo indian because he exchanges his good (dark squared) bissop versus whites bad (dark squared bisshop). However his pawn formation is flexible and often he gets a semi open file in return. 

Playing Bb4 against the catalan black's intention is often not to exchange the dark squared bisshop but do displace the white dark squared bisshop on d2 where it is a major pain in the ass because d2 is the favorite spot for the knight. At a certain time white will have to play either Bf4 of Bg5 to make room for the knight. If black does not play Bb4 white rather keeps his bisshop on c1 for a longer time as he often has more important stuff to do than develop his dark squared bisshop.

plutonia

I think there's less theory to study, and the positions are more similar to the Nimzo Indian. Bogo is thus more practical for e4 players who just need a good defence with black without spending too much time on it...

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Vendry

I use both of them, and I think both are fantastic openings. The idea of the Bogo-Indian is to trade pieces and simplificate the position, (or transposing onto a Nimzo-Indian) which favours the defense, so you should avoid that and try to attack. The most played line is 4.Bd2 Bxd2 and then 5. Qxd2 is better Than Nxd2 because you have better coordination. This opening is also possible with the Catalan opening, it's the Catalan variation, and I use it a lot.

The QID is very flexible and the idea is to attack the center and the Kingside from the Queenside fianchetto. But I think it's not played whith the Catalan, so I play the Bogo instead of this.

TheGreatOogieBoogie

You don't have to exchange bishops you can move back to e7 and now white is in a fingerslip variation a meaningless tempo up.  The bishop obstructs the queen's influence over the d-pawn.  c5 is also favorable in some Bogo lines however where the bishops do get traded. 

kalle99

The Bogo-Indian is simpler to learn. QID is more theorethical.

And you can play it against  the Catalan....1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.g3 Bb4+

The so called Catalan-Bogo. Another reason to play it is that the white player is more annoyed by the check on b4 than 3...b6. Many finds it boring to face. I think some white players chose to allow the nimzo instead because it gives more chances to have a fighting game.

Jhorwin

Queens indian is not playable against the Catalan 3.g3 that's why QID players need to study another opening against the Catalan. Bogo on the other hand makes no difference between whites 3.Nf3 or 3.g3

DrSpudnik

When White avoids the Nimzo with Nf3, I play d5 and go to the QGD.

CongratsOnYourLoss
DrSpudnik wrote:

When White avoids the Nimzo with Nf3, I play d5 and go to the QGD.

Yeah thats nice 

poucin

"What appeals to people in the Bogo Indian that makes them choose it over the Queen's Indian?"

We should ask the reverse : why choosing queen's indian over Bogo?

pestebalcanica
ThrillerFan
poucin wrote:

"What appeals to people in the Bogo Indian that makes them choose it over the Queen's Indian?"

We should ask the reverse : why choosing queen's indian over Bogo?

Popularity!

Many baffoons try to play whatever is trendy rather than what they are good at!

Case in point.  The Caro-Kann.  The "trendy" line these days in the main line is 4...Bf5.  4...Nf6 and 4...Nd7 have plummetted in popularity like the Titanic.  But guess what?  Doesn't stop me from playing 4...Nd7!

pestebalcanica

I didn't. Not that I'm playing much of anything but as far as I'm concerned 4...Nd7 is as good as 4...Bf5. I have had problems to solve with both, now and then. I slightly prefer 4...Bf5 right now.

Rumo75
poucin hat geschrieben:

"What appeals to people in the Bogo Indian that makes them choose it over the Queen's Indian?"

We should ask the reverse : why choosing queen's indian over Bogo?

Many grandmasters share the opinion that after 4.Nbd2 black has the choice between giving up the bishop pair for not very much in return or going for these strategically somewhat risky positions with 5...Be7 6.e4. I think this is a plausible reason why on top level everyone plays the Queen's Indian, and not fashion or chemtrails (the latter remark is of course not directed to you.)

Yes, Bogo-Indian is less theory and strategically more straight-forward, black is usually aiming for a dark-square strategy.

TwoMove

Until last candidates tournament, Bogo was played more often than QI at that level, in recent times. Depends who is playing, Karjakin is a big QI supporter. The nb-d2 is definitely becoming the most testing line though. Black not without chances, a recent book by chessexplained on chess com called "the nimzo and bogo indian" or something similar covers it well. He thinks only a line involving h4 is at all dangerous for black. Other lines are a consistent black square approach. 

On the whole think it makes a lot of sense for club players to play Bogo rather than queensindian.

Rumo75

Really? I cannot remember many games of Bogo played by 2700 guys, and none in world championship matches. The Queen's Indian has quite a different history in that regard, there's hardly a top player who has not played it at least a few times.

For club players your advice may well be right, but on top level... well, when I have more time I'll consult a database.

poucin

i agree with u Rumo...

QI has always been a major opening at top level since decades.

We cannot say the same about Bogo, which, as many openings, became a reliable defence nowadays and is played maybe more than QI (at top level).

Bogo had a bad reputation during history, but now it is different...

At club level, Bogo may be simpler, but black has to know what to do. Bogo has another point, it is more active than QI so it is more appealing at some level...

TwoMove

I must admit  have overstated the case. In 2013 Candidates there were two Bogo's compared to one Queen's Indian, hardly convicing statistics. In 2700+ games defending the catalan with 1.d4 Nf6 2c4 e6 3g3 Bb4ch 4Bd2 BxB 5QxB d5 quite popular, where playing nd2 isn't so effective. At one time Aronian's pawn sac line with Qc2 seemed to be causing problems in the g3 ba6 line, but that doesn't seem the case anymore.

 

Playing Queen Gambit Declined's always very popular option. Either Ragozin when being ambitious, or the be7 when want solid lines.