Question about fishing pole

I've only recently become aware of this opening, but I don't know anyone local who plays it so I thought I'd ask here.  In the main lines white is of course better, but OTB it's often hard to refute as black often gets the initiative and a violent attack.  It seems like white has to have memorized at least a few lines if he wants to survive. 

I'm wondering if white can simply play 6.c3  I looked on google and youtube (and here) briefly and couldn't find this move.  The point of 6.c3 is that now black can't play his usual 6th move Bc5 and so white eliminates an important attacker from ever coming into the game.

If it eliminates all the complications the move is attractive to me because I wont have to look into the line any further.  If this move is known to fishing-pole players though, and black can keep the game complicated I'd like to know.

Does that really have any teeth? (Black's idea I mean) ... it seems to me Black is launching an undeveloped premature attack. I don't know this line at all, so maybe the sac is refutable, but just looking OTB I think all White has to memorize is don't take the N right away.  Is 6.d4 no good?... I think that's what I'd play OTB. Did I just walk into something?

This link may have the analysis you're looking for: www.cec-services.com/050323.fishing.hook.pdf

Wow, I got it... all white has to memorize is: Don't take the N right away. But it looks like Orangehonda's c3 is stronger than my d4 (both are good though).

Black's extended Knight is not a threat on its own.
Black has no followup to it.
His only hope is the White makes a mistake.

In order for Black to be able to keep his Knight on its advanced post, he must keep his Queen and Rook in position to pounce.
Otherwise, White will snap it off with hxg4.
This also means that Black can't castle King-side.

So in summary, Black's Knight is accomplishing nothing except restricting his own development.

All White needs to do is to develop naturally.
And as his pieces come out, his own Kingside will becmoe more secure.
Once it is, White will begin to threaten the capture of the Knight.
And Black will simply have to waste a second tempo to retreat it.

Easy peasy.

--CM

After 6. c3, both players would do well to write "1-0" on their scorecards right away.

No, d4 is fine, white is winning.  Black often sacs a pawn here with exd4 Nxd4 Bc5. 

Even after h3 and h5 white is winning but this is just a trappy opening to play for a crazy attack in blitz.  Instead of wading through variations trying to crush it I was just wondering if white could play calmly with c3.

Ooh, nice, thanks.

Is this how openings work?  How exciting, I can't wait to break 1000

I know white is winning, this is a trappy blitz opening, I just wondered if all I had to know was 1 move and forget about it forever or if I actually had to memorize a few things.

orangehonda, I don't know anything about this opening other than that the immediate hxg4 is bad, but it (c3) looks quite good to me.

The only reason why people try to avoid c3 is that it's a clumsier way to play d4, if black is smart enough not to give up his e pawn in response to a white d4 unless he has to or has incredible central pressure (rare), then white has to deal with the c pawn slightly constricting development and the fact that it took him an extra move to play d4.

But against an opening like this, it would probably work totally fine, since all you have to do is refute black's attack and you're much better.

With that said, d4 is probably even stronger and in my opinion would be worth the time to memorize a few traps and then proceed to crush the opening in the future. But if you were to lazy to do that and encountered this again, then I think c3 would be a fine option.

Yes, it's basically laziness :) -- I really doubt I'll ever have to face this at a tournament so really don't want to take the time to look at it, and with hours on my clock I don't mind having a winning advantage with c3 vs a crushing advantage with something else. 

And actually, the computer lines Kingwraith linked give c3 as best (duel core Fritz 8) but of course I wont play at a 2800 level after c3 and all I see is what you see, restricted slower development.  However I enjoy safe-solid edge slow moving games more than crazed open tactical games -- and with the intentions Ng4 indicates surely such a closed game will make my opponent suffer ok maybe that's not objective chess but I still have winawer and tarrasch french lines to work on and don't want to mess with this weird fishing pole crap any more than I have to.

Despite the computer calculated positional advantage for white after 6 moves, a lot of masters say that with perfect play from both sides, out of the opening things should settle down to a small advantage for white. But that is only from what I have heard...

Yes, I actually play the exchange more than the main line Ba4 stuff and am pretty comfortable with all the different exchange lines.  Here white does the d3, Nd2, Re1 (to clear f1) stuff -- beyond that and the d4 push to come I really don't remember the specifics of this opening (haven't faced it in a while).

But this is a good line to point out, I think I saw somewhere that this has become that main line (is that right?) over the 5...f6 lines.  Which was surprising to me because I thought white supposedly gets a fairly easy edge in the 5...Bg4 lines.  In any case the people in my area seem to go for the 5...f6 with 6...Bg4 more often, which seems more comfortable for black (or maybe as white I don't play it right heh).

In that case sure, go ahead and play c3. It's true that's about the only move you have to study lol.

I don't think white has a pawn and a half advantage as Fritz 8 generously gives... but I do think white has a comfortable edge (more than the regular small advantage IMO).  If I can avoid any complications I have no problems sitting on the white side of this for hours at a tournament.

Either way I don't think this opening is worth talking about that much anyway... at least now that I have an answer heh.  As for the fried liver attack, if we could just use that super computer Topalov used for his WC match prep and let it hash out to a depth of 40 which side is better   Even if the analysis was too broad or deep to be of any practical use it would be fun.

So which side is better 40 moves deep?

lol, who knows.

I have never heard of this opening. Is it more effective than the pawn to e4 and then queen to h5, then bishop to b5? If I have the wrong locations then let me know because I really need to figure them out. Cause I have no idea what you are talking about when you say Nxd4 or any of that.

My original post should have a diagram you can look at for the moves... the opening though isn't good for black so it's not really worth remembering.  White's moves however are usual and worth remembering.  His first 3 moves (still talking about the diagram in the first post) are the most common, putting his bishop on b5. White playing e4 and then Bc4 (bishop's opening) isn't as common but it's fine.

As for your setup with the pawn to e4 and queen on h5 do you mean this?

If you do, this is trying for the scholar's mate, and wont work against anyone but beginners.  We've all probably fallen for it (or something similar) when we started playing, but it's because we've all seen it that no one experienced will fall for it again.  It's better to keep your queen back in the opening because any lesser piece that attacks her can force her to retreat which loses you time.

Oh ok thanks. And you have the bishop on c4 and I said b5. So I guess I should find a new opening move, unless I am playing at school because nobody there likes chess. lol Thanks for the help orangehonda.