Question about the Sicilian Defense

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Redgreenorangeyellow

Every single time I play the Sicilian with black and opposite side castling occurs, my black king always get annihilated with some attack. I feel that the white pieces in the Sicilian are better positioned in a way to attack. Is this true or I am just bad? What are some passive lines to play, should my opponent go for the open variation?

llama

Yeah, the Sicilian is tough. I never liked it myself.

White isn't better, but if you don't know enough theory (and/or the common attacking ideas) then you're pretty screwed.

 

Redgreenorangeyellow wrote:

What are some passive lines to play, should my opponent go for the open variation?

Well, passive is bad, but for example the Sveshnikov is pretty chill. More positional ideas than caveman attacks.

Redgreenorangeyellow
llama wrote:

Yeah, the Sicilian is tough. I never liked it myself.

White isn't better, but if you don't know enough theory (and/or the common attacking ideas) then you're pretty screwed.

 

Redgreenorangeyellow wrote:

What are some passive lines to play, should my opponent go for the open variation?

Well, passive is bad, but for example the Sveshnikov is pretty chill. More positional ideas than caveman attacks.

Damn I lost in the Sveshnikov and that is what caused me to make this thread. I like playing the Sicilian with white. I win 75% of the time with it. I feel like Sicilian games either turn out to be boring endgames by the 15th move or a sharp middlegame where both players strive to attack. 

 

llama

I see one of your recent losses was in the scheveningen, and yeah, that can get crazy.

But I'm talking about the Sveshnikov.

blueemu

It sometimes helps to just leave your King in the center. It can get scary, though.

Jenium
Redgreenorangeyellow wrote:

Every single time I play the Sicilian with black and opposite side castling occurs, my black king always get annihilated with some attack. I feel that the white pieces in the Sicilian are better positioned in a way to attack. Is this true or I am just bad? What are some passive lines to play, should my opponent go for the open variation?

Refering to your last game... avoid pawn pushs like h6 in front of your king. This makes it easier for White to open lines against your king.

Madiesyn

The Sicilian Defense is a good opening for black, but as it does have a lot of theory and tricks to watch out for it can be very difficult to play especially at the start of the game and requires a lot more practice to get the most out of it. The flipside is it leads to more enjoyable and dynamic games with good counter-attacking oppourtunities. The more you play it the better you'll get at it.

TrainerMeow
Redgreenorangeyellow wrote:

I feel that the white pieces in the Sicilian are better positioned in a way to attack. Is this true or I am just bad? What are some passive lines to play, should my opponent go for the open variation?

White is indeed the attacking player most of the time. Black, on the other hand, often responds with a counter attack on the queenside and/or in the center. "Attack is the best form of defense." Passive lines barely exist in the Sicilian and, if they do, they are the choice of the first player.

sndeww
TrainerMeow wrote:
Redgreenorangeyellow wrote:

I feel that the white pieces in the Sicilian are better positioned in a way to attack. Is this true or I am just bad? What are some passive lines to play, should my opponent go for the open variation?

White is indeed the attacking player most of the time. Black, on the other hand, often responds with a counter attack on the queenside and/or in the center. "Attack is the best form of defense." Passive lines barely exist in the Sicilian and, if they do, they are the choice of the first player.

Honestly that's why I dropped the Sicilian.

Redgreenorangeyellow
llama wrote:

I see one of your recent losses was in the scheveningen, and yeah, that can get crazy.

But I'm talking about the Sveshnikov.

Oh oops, I always confuse the Sveshnikov and the Scheveningen. They sound the same in my head lol. I will look into the Sveshnikov. 

 

Redgreenorangeyellow
blueemu wrote:

It sometimes helps to just leave your King in the center. It can get scary, though.

Thanks for the game. I will consider leaving the king in the center if I get the right position. 

 

 

 

Redgreenorangeyellow
Optimissed wrote:
Redgreenorangeyellow wrote:
llama wrote:

Yeah, the Sicilian is tough. I never liked it myself.

White isn't better, but if you don't know enough theory (and/or the common attacking ideas) then you're pretty screwed.

 

Redgreenorangeyellow wrote:

What are some passive lines to play, should my opponent go for the open variation?

Well, passive is bad, but for example the Sveshnikov is pretty chill. More positional ideas than caveman attacks.

Damn I lost in the Sveshnikov and that is what caused me to make this thread. I like playing the Sicilian with white. I win 75% of the time with it. I feel like Sicilian games either turn out to be boring endgames by the 15th move or a sharp middlegame where both players strive to attack. 

 

The fact that you like the Sicilian with white and tend to win probably causes your losses with black because you might be playing black as if it's white. White gets more time to set up an attack but often black has to react immediately to threats and there may be only one move or maybe only one or two possible ideas of how black can counter-attack quickly, fight for key squares, take space, challenge dangerous pieces, etc. I think much of the art of the Sicilian is in predicting white's possible methods of attack and in laying deep plans to counter them so that a counter-attack looks at first as if you're playing an "only move" to counter a threat and that way, black can turn the tables on white because white is too relaxed and before he knows it, all black's pieces are co-ordinated, completely by chance, of course, in a counter-attack that's potentially winning.

But the secret boils down to preparedness and the willingness and ability to grasp the nettle and hit white hard and fast.

 

Ok, I will try treating the Sicilian with black in a much more delicate manner. 

 

SwimmerBill

As Blueemu suggested, one "rule of thumb" for the Sicilian [with opposite side castling] is "Don't castle until your queen side counterplay has begun."  So fire up the queen side play, get ready to castle timed by watching out for the standard sacs on f5, d5, b5, e6.  .... Long ago one very strong player I happened to win against told me in the later analysis that he knew his Sicilian was going bad because he had to defend rather than counter attack. I learned a lot from that one comment: Look first to counter attack, then defend.

Redgreenorangeyellow
SwimmerBill wrote:

As Blueemu suggested, one "rule of thumb" for the Sicilian [with opposite side castling] is "Don't castle until your queen side counterplay has begun."  So fire up the queen side play, get ready to castle timed by watching out for the standard sacs on f5, d5, b5, e6.  .... Long ago one very strong player I happened to win against told me in the later analysis that he knew his Sicilian was going bad because he had to defend rather than counter attack. I learned a lot from that one comment: Look first to counter attack, then defend.

 

Ok. Now, if white chooses to castle kingside in some variations, should I promptly castle kingside as well or should I wait?

 

SwimmerBill

If white castles kingside you still try to "defend by counterattack." How that works out depends on which variation & formation. In what I play, white wants to attack after 0-0 by e5 then attack in center, by g4,g5 then lift a rook, by f5 and by Bd3 then e5 and the "Greek gift". You have to watch move order and be ready for the counter d5, or  b4 then d5 or  Rxd3 then Nxe4 or Nxd4 followed by e5. Castling has to fit in there depending. For example, if white plays Qe2 then she/he is obviously aiming for e5 and you have to respond. If then white plays Be3, that makes e5 harder and white may be shifting to aim for g4 so you may have more time. If white plays Bd3 then e5 is deadly and you need to get rid of that bishop or eliminate e5 as a threat. So it becomes more of a cat and mouse game and less of a game of "tear their face off".  I hope Blueemu and others also respond so I can learn from their experience.

Redgreenorangeyellow
TooManyBlunders wrote:

The Sicilian Defense is a good opening, but you have to know how to play it properly (there is a lot of theory) or else you will lose very quickly.

Nice game

 

SwimmerBill
Susik_Gaboyan wrote:

Sveshnikov is nice, I play it more than 7 years

A summary of your experience for blacks ideas in timing her counterattack vs whites tries would be highly appreciated.

Redgreenorangeyellow
TooManyBlunders wrote:

The Sicilian Defense is a good opening, but you have to know how to play it properly (there is a lot of theory) or else you will lose very quickly.

Yeah, I recently played against a 2400 player and he played the Sicilian. He did not know how to play it that well as black, for I quickly initiated an attack. I almost won, but unfortunately, his technical skill allowed him to get out the inferior position and I made a couple of mistakes. Later on, I achieved a drawing position, but of course I messed that up too.