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Ruy Lopez 3...Bc5

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dsf001

I have been playing 3...Bc5 as Black in the Ruy Lopez for years, and it has usually gone well, until I recently played the following game as Black. 

I've been pondering what I did wrong in this game.  Obviously I should not have played 8...Nxf2.  So what should I have played instead at move #8? 8...Bxf2+ would have been just as bad after 9.Kd1 and Black cannot simutaneously defend the knight and g7 (e.g. 9...Qh4 10.Qxg7 Rf8 11.Bh6).  Therefore, the blunder must have happened earlier. 

Let's back up the position to 5.d4.  Black has two options: Take the pawn or retreat the bishop.  If Black takes the pawn, 5...exd4 6.cxd4 Bb6 and white's central pawns will attack the knights.  So Black plays 5...Bb6.  After 6.Nxe5, Black cannot trade knights.  Black also cannot play 6...Nxe4, because White will be up a pawn in the following line:

Is there any way Black can defend after 6.Nxe5?

Thanks.

Dale
dsf001

I like it!

...and Black is up a pawn!

I don't have to worry about the queen pin either!

I'm sure there's some way for White to avoid losing the pawn, but it doesn't look easy.  Thanks for the idea!

(Did I make any mistakes there?)

bresando
dsf001 wrote:

!

 

I'm sure there's some way for White to avoid losing the pawn, but it doesn't look easy.  Thanks for the idea!



simply 6.e5, the most played move Wink. Then either ne4 and Nd5 are playable, with a somewhat alekhine-like position for black. White is probably a bit better but still it's reasonable for black, and very low on theory. I always wondered why so little people play Bc5.

You also need to consider 5.O-O, intending d4 on the next move after having ruled the Bb4+ defence out. This trasposes to the so called classical berlin defence (the usual move order would be 3...Nf6 4.O-O Bc5 5.c3 ).It's a reliable line which however requires you to learn a couple of sharp forcing variation.

joelseymour
joelseymour

8. Qg4f5 - Be  careful after f5


dsf001

I did not see the defense 11...Bc5 to protect the rook.  Now that I've been shown that, the position does not look as hopeless for Black as I thought.  But still, White's position looks better to me. 

I'll think more carefully about the line 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Bc5 4.c3 Nf6 5.d4 exd4 6.e5.  I am worried about 6...Ne4 7.Qe2 as well as 6...Nd5 7.cxd4.  Once again I feel that Black has no satisfactory response to 5.d4.