Ruy Lopez, chigorin variation

hi, i'm studying opening right now and create this thread for have a record of my analysis.

any suggestion help me and if this thread help to someone, good for him.

Have you seen Bacrot-Svidler, 4th FIDE GP, Nalchick 2009? White delayed 16, b4 in favor of the knight manuver and B;ack prefered Bf6 followed by Bg7 to Bf8. The game does not change the assessment, White needs to play on both sides to win.

yes, see that game right now, and the ideas was the same, after review kasparov game i think white need a change of plans.

Hardly a change of a plans. Don't you think 12...Bd7 is the mainline for a reason? I find it amazing that Black's position after move 15 is playable at all. Apperently grandmasters use it as a drawing weapon.

yes, i know that 12...Bd7 is the mainline in fact my teacher play 12...Bd7 and 13... c4 if he can (i play 13 b3 avoiding it)

but is always interesting to know what happen if the queenside is totally blocked.

why i believe is a totally change of planes play c4 instead b4?

because c4 cover d5 for a eventual e5.

there is a game of topalov-shirov where black open the b file taking the pawn but the result was the same.

I suggest looking at 13...Bd8 or 13...Ne8 14. Nc3 Bd8. Oddly enough, a computer played this against Kasmindzhhanov for a draw in 2005.

the last look of the 12...Nc4 is taking pawns.

With all respect CiDragon. "Wants to" not "Want"...Very nice thread thx!

thanks!

I never noticed this before, but 12. d5 Nc4 13. b3 Nb6 14. a4 Qd8 is a Romanishine by transposition. e.g.

Just something new to chew on.

Just lost 2 games against Chigorin recently, so this thread is like a gift for me.

I see. I need to play b4 in case of ...c4. Am I right?

can you show me a diagram? because don't understand when you think is necessary answer b4 again c4. Also, i play b3 avoiding c4 of black.

interesting game, but bxc4? not sure what is Delorme thinking xd.

I mean in general.

Meeting c4 with b4 does deny Black use of c5 for his knight. I am not sure it is mandantory when Black plays c4, but one of White's ideas is to keep the knight that went to a5 out of play.

I chose that particular game because it was the last one in the chess 365 database that Romanishin played, there are others; I was just showing the transposition and the idea of recocking the knight to d7 instead of c8.

Before I can ever follow your theories, ideas and lots of useful comments and stuff, I should first stop blundering my pieces in every game...

@ MSC 137 I don't actually see a good time to play b4 in that game. 14. b4? fails tactically. 17. b4 is meet with 17...axb4 18. cxb4 and Black has a protected passed pawn on the 6th rank. 

13. Nbd2 unprotect b3 pawn.

here is a example when c4 of black isn't very good.

i don't want to make another topic, so i'm going to asking here. ¿is this topic in the right place or need change to another? because i want create another talking about french defense.