Ruy Lopez new theory

MEGA_TROLL I posted to get my ideas out there, and so I can learn new things. The Worrall Attack was the newest weapon for white, leading to positions and dynamics differant than the main lines of the Ruy Lopez. I already know every variation of the Ruy Lopez, I want to experiment, look at the position from a new perspective. Look at new possibilities for black. Curiousity, etc.

ThrillerFan

The example game was an Rybka 64 bit vs Rybka 64 bit. There are many differant moves that can be played, but if you look at my ideas behind the move, at some point in the opening, you can see the purpose is it avoids committing it to f1, c5. Queenside or kingside. can be used at differant times. allows more options, knight can move and stay on "a" file instead of protecting pawn. Rook can stay there too if a4 is played, because in some lines the rook has to forfit the "a file" to allow the queenside pawns to not be fragmented. There are lots of ideas i have for the move. experiment with it.

X_PLAYER_J_X

Once again, I agree with you. For the a4 line I'd go with the Na5 gambiting the e pawn. If h3, Bd6 i think is better than d6. d5 is ok, I at least equalizes, but i feel it is slightly drawish. Ive had queen trades if white plays d3 and I go d5 to equalize. With Bd6, I feel the tension is also kept longer the center.

I don't know what hogwash you are speaking, but two things are true here:

1) Computers are not good at openings, and they need tablebases for endgames as they can't evaluate them correct (i.e. They say KRN vs KR, no pawns, is +3 and winning for White, which we all know it's not!)

2) Again I re-itterate, I could care freaking less how much you want to argue about "experimenting".  Give me White in the position after 8...Bb7, and I WILL NOT PLAY 9.h3.  Therefore, your analysis is useless as I would be further developed than White is here because I wouldn't waste my time playing a move that isn't necessary, like h3.  h3 is only necessary if Black can play Bg4, which he can't for two reasons.  1) He moved the Bishop to another diagonal, and 2) He never moved the d-pawn.

People keep commenting over that 1 engine example. Ok so Bg5 pinning, and Bd6. Whats the big deal? same concepts, and rerouting the bishop later. You can choose where to put the light squared bishop too. You choose where to put the dark squared bishop depending on the structure of white. It allows the rook to not forfit the "a" file. Do i have to keep repeating myself? The past game has nothing to do with the concept. There can be an infinite amount of moves white can play and all of them cannot capitalize on the bishop being on d6 then moving to f1 or c5 later. Stop judging this move based off of one example. I also do not feel like doing more and more games with an engine (i did) and posting them here (because I have to do it through word, because i cannot copy and paste it from my "Arena" program, or upload it). It is really annoyinging when people just dismiss it immediatly. Bd6 has nothing to do with h3 or c3. It merely temporarily supports the pawn then moves once the rook or queen(with rd8) support it.

there are lots of ideas, the game gets 1 idea, geez, this isnt my job. I posted it because it was all following the "best" engine moves and i didnt feel like straining myself with tons of variations. Im being general. Also if you want the answer, real all of my posts. No matter what move white will do, black will do a move and the game will stay balanced. put it on your engine. Show me a refutation using the best engine moves.

I make a post to give people a new idea and all that happens is I get critisized, and people tear up my idea. Just negativity. Really stressing me out.

ok another example

The B doesnt belong on d6 , its much better placed on e7 or even c5 . 

andrewjeselson2

I believe your idea is a Novelty idea that sparked interest in me. I will be adding this to my Novelty file.

yea, bad and good things, its a novelty. Trades off things, cant be exploited specifically, or immediatly.

There are the best moves (objective) in chess, and there are effective moves (psychological, unususal to people, Lasker kind of moves). This move is an effective move. While it does lose a bishop tempo, it is not a bad move, nor is it a good move. It is a new idea that can be used, most effectively OTB to confuse the opponent, deviate from familiar positions, temporarily help out. If the opponent plays the wrong moves, then the bishops placement may prove effective, because the exchange on e5 can develop the bishop. It has about the same value as the move Nf3 in the old main line of the marshall attack. If you aim to play d5 but the opponent made it unplayable, playing d6 then d5 later also can liberate the position, however d6 allows the opponent to fix your pawns with d5 himself. To play this move and use if effectively, you must understand the ideas behind it, and if your opponent gets too confident, then the opponent can make a move that allows the bishops awkward placement to be either good, or another mistake on the board can be made by the opponent. Mistakes happen from thinking it is going to be an easy win. If it is an emotionless opponent, who is like a computer, then the move is probably not as effective.

You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make them drink .  

If you like it, play it. When you don't like the results, drop it and play a real opening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMuvYfgVlns

In game 1 of this link, David Howell uses my system when it is a must. so in certain positions, Bd6 must happen. Game is displayed below as well.

Also below is a position i played with lots of mistakes that is similar to the david howell game and white played h3. Of course I went for a reverse worrall setup, but same concepts/patterns. My intuition is in love with these things. Just interesting because i played this today, the same time the youtube video was uploaded.

I'm not really sure about this... 

I believe andrewjeselson2 theoritical opening knowledge about the Ruy Lopez is his biggest problem.

Andrewjeselson2 idea is based off an old idea. Which was shown in this thread it was in Andrew Greet's book "Play the Ruy Lopez".

I have read his entire forum and his analysis show's how he is trying to force the idea into the position at random stages of the game. Which isn't that practical.

I than did my own analysis to see if it is even possible to play this idea. I did find a very novelty way of playing the line. However, the move order is extremely different than his.

This is his move order

1. e4 e5

2. Nf3 Nc6

3. Bb5 a6

4. Ba4 Nf6

5. 0-0 b5

6. Bb3 Be7

7. Re1 0-0

8. c3 Bb7

9. h3 Bd6 (the key move)

The moves he makes above makes no sense Theoritically from a human stand point. I would explain why his moves are wrong but I don't feel like explaining it all. I guess the simpliest answer is white can break open the position with d4.

I believe he used an engine to find those moves;however, his engine isn't using an opening book. It is trying to read the position/find the best move in the position with out one I believe. which is why it is jumping around all the book move's for both side's but not playing them in proper logical order.

So here are the move order's I was using.

1. e4 e5

2. Nf3 Nc6

3. Bb5 a6

4. Ba4 Nf6

5. O-O Be7

6. Re1 b5

7. Bb3 O-O

At move 8 white has 5 moves they can play.

8.c3, 8.h3, 8.a4, 8.d4, and 8.d3

If they play 8.c3 I would go with the Marshall Attack/Gambit which was made by Frank James Marshall which I actually wrote an article about that. You can read it by clicking Here.

The moves I have highlighted in Green(8.h3 and 8.d3) have high chance of transposing into each other in which case that is when I would play Bd6 and not before.

(You want to play Bd6 only when d3 is played).

The reason why Andrew Greet's idea never worked in his book "Play the Ruy Lopez" was becuase his idea was based on the notition of regrouping his piece's. When you regroup your pieces it takes time for you to regroup them. The only way to gain time is by trying to get a closed position.

He tryed to accomplish that idea at move 3 the reason it kept failing at move 3 was becuase white was able to break open the position with 5.d4! Which means if your opponent has the chance to play d4 and break open the position your idea is going to fail. Which means you want your opponent to play d3 at some point so that way the position stays closed. Which is possible in the 2 above line's As well as in another line. I will show as well.

1. e4 e5

2. Nf3 Nc6

3. Bb5 a6

4. Ba4 Nf6

5. O-O Be7

6. Re1 b5

7. Bb3 O-O

So I will show what happens after 8.h3 and 8.d3

So here are the moves I propose.

8.h3

8.d3

The only line tricky here is 8.d3 sometimes they might not play h3 if they do it transposes so keep eye on that one.

The Last line I will show will be part of the:

Arch Angel Variation (Defence)

This move order is part of Arch Angel move order.

1. e4 e5

2. Nf3 Nc6

3. Bb5 a6

4. Ba4 Nf6

5. O-O b5!

6. Bb3 Bb7

7. d3

At move 7 my engine's reads the top 5 moves in the position at depth 22 as the following:

7...Be7 0.21

7...Bd6 0.26

7...Bc5 0.17

7...Bb4 0.37

7...h6 0.32

So even in this position the move is playable. I carefully chose these move order's and I chose the timing of the move because I believe it keeps you extremely flexible all the way until you make the move Bd6.

• So even at the last second before you make the move Bd6 you have the option to play another move/another mainline. The positive aspect of having this Flexiblity allows you the option to try and confuse your opponent's.
  
• Some opponents makes moves with out thinking or maybe they believe you will play same line and premove which than when you make this 1 move deviation it could throw them completely off.
  
• I will like to keep you aware that if you play these Bd6 lines and find yourself not liking them the beauty in this move order set up is it allows you to change the move in favor of another move which can completely change the nature of your game. So if you find yourself not liking Bd6 than you can try other option's.
• Lastly, The position in which you are playing Bd6 are I believe some what closed position's which your opponent can not easily exploit this move in this position.
  

I hope that helps and that is all I have to say

Cheer's

useful and thanks! I dont mean to force opinion, because i dont use it myself. I just mean to talk about something new. Get theory on something non-theoretical. I dont care about Bd6, but ive faced it before, and seen it before, and it annoys me. looking at the patters of the position.