For example.
Seems Fischer was correct about the kings gambit
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Dec 27, 2018
0
#23
So choosing a line in the KG, for both players, is less about the engine and more about practical consideration. Will my opponent know this theory? How difficult are the problems I can pose for them to solve OTB? In general, how easy is it for a human opponent to play this type of position? Do I prefer messy positions where piece play and initiative tend to win the day? Or do I prefer more traditional positions?
These are the sorts of questions both players ask themselves when choosing a KG line. Unfortunately for white, black gets to make some big decisions early on. For example 2...Bc5 and 2...d5 are popular variations that avoid the romantic / chaotic positions and require relatively less theory.
They say BF wrote that article when he was like 17 & probably couldn't win mosta today's top females - at the time. So pretty naive stuff....in fact, kinda ignorant really.
Dec 27, 2018
0
#25
He was right that B-QB4 was bad, as I noted it's bad on either move 4 or 5.
It's what most people seem to play online though... and I've never faced the KG OTB.
And I don't blame him for not considering 5.h4 g4 6.Ng1 which at a glace looks ridiculous (or at least not in the KG spirit).
Was Fischer right? That depends on what you mean by that.
No, Fischer wasn't right, if by that you mean he was right that the Fischer Defense against the King's Gambit can always be made, with correct play, to secure a significant advantage for Black. Continued study of the opening has found some playable lines are still left in the King's Gambit.
But he certainly is right that the King's Gambit isn't exactly one of the most promising openings for White. To keep even equality, White has to work hard, knowing the opening lines very well. If the White player wants to keep his advantage, he has plenty of much better choices.
stiggling wrote:
Choowd3 wrote:
Recently was checking out what stockfish 10 had to say about the kings gambit and on the lichess cloud analysis it seems to believe that fischers defense e4 e5 f4 exf4 nf3 d6 was the best move. Of course the genius Bobby Fischer would have found it.
If you go into some of those main lines, white is getting equal (or very close to equal) positions. The engines overestimate it early on, especially if you're using browser or phone to run the engine.
Also it wasn't Fischer's discovery.
well of course in an opening this old theres no way he would have been first but still I never said that fischers defense refuted the opening however you are inccorect about its overestimation at depth 50 it gives black -.5 and of course thats not able to make any sort of huge different at anything except top level play but that is certainly not equal
melvinbluestone wrote:
Of course, the absurdity of Fischer's argument is evidenced by the fact that he didn't find 3...d6 OTB in his game with Spassky. After all, it's not as if the move was unknown. Anderssen had faced it with the white pieces as far back as 1862..... and lost! I think Bobby's somewhat rash pronouncement "it loses by force" was the result of one of his legendary temper tantrums ignited by the loss of this game.
yes he only went into this study after being defeated by spassky for the first time but as I said a second ago in an opening this old theres no way he could have accually invented the move however he did put in the thorough analysis and considered it to be the best way to fight the opening I agree thought that he said its busted because of a temper tantrum
quadibloc wrote:
Was Fischer right? That depends on what you mean by that.
No, Fischer wasn't right, if by that you mean he was right that the Fischer Defense against the King's Gambit can always be made, with correct play, to secure a significant advantage for Black. Continued study of the opening has found some playable lines are still left in the King's Gambit.
But he certainly is right that the King's Gambit isn't exactly one of the most promising openings for White. To keep even equality, White has to work hard, knowing the opening lines very well. If the White player wants to keep his advantage, he has plenty of much better choices.
when i said right i didnt mean he was right about the opening being busted I meant that he was right about this being your best shot at countering the opening him sayings its busted was just an anger fueled statement after his defeat by spassky
Thee_Ghostess_Lola wrote:
They say BF wrote that article when he was like 17 & probably couldn't win mosta today's top females - at the time. So pretty naive stuff....in fact, kinda ignorant really.
well i dont know about that my friend at the age of fourteen he became the united states champion which is more than most of us can probably say. and while his statement that the kings gambit is busted is incorrrect his statement that d6 is the best way to combat the opening is correct no matter how old he was
stiggling wrote:
So choosing a line in the KG, for both players, is less about the engine and more about practical consideration. Will my opponent know this theory? How difficult are the problems I can pose for them to solve OTB? In general, how easy is it for a human opponent to play this type of position? Do I prefer messy positions where piece play and initiative tend to win the day? Or do I prefer more traditional positions?
These are the sorts of questions both players ask themselves when choosing a KG line. Unfortunately for white, black gets to make some big decisions early on. For example 2...Bc5 and 2...d5 are popular variations that avoid the romantic / chaotic positions and require relatively less theory.
I agree but the fischer defenses somewhat slow play seems to make it difficult for an attack to be possible which requires you to rely on your center and active piece play to be compensation
When ur 14 or 17 ?....ur still basically a child. I mean really now.
They say when he lost against V. Pupols he got so mad he started crying. Not unusual for ppl w/ ferocious tempers.
Thee_Ghostess_Lola wrote:
When ur 14 or 17 ?....ur still basically a child. I mean really now.
They say when he lost against V. Pupols he got so mad he started crying. Not unusual for ppl w/ ferocious tempers.
young but still a hell of a chess player
Dec 28, 2018
0
#35
Thee_Ghostess_Lola wrote:
When ur 14 or 17 ?....ur still basically a child. I mean really now.
They say when he lost against V. Pupols he got so mad he started crying. Not unusual for ppl w/ ferocious tempers.
I see Victors twice a year in Reno, and the man is living chess history, with the greatest stories, and lymrics.
Dec 28, 2018
0
#36
Choowd3 wrote:
you are inccorect about its overestimation at depth 50 it gives black -.5
You don't know how to use an engine.
Dec 28, 2018
0
#37
Choowd3 wrote:
stiggling wrote:
So choosing a line in the KG, for both players, is less about the engine and more about practical consideration. Will my opponent know this theory? How difficult are the problems I can pose for them to solve OTB? In general, how easy is it for a human opponent to play this type of position? Do I prefer messy positions where piece play and initiative tend to win the day? Or do I prefer more traditional positions?
These are the sorts of questions both players ask themselves when choosing a KG line. Unfortunately for white, black gets to make some big decisions early on. For example 2...Bc5 and 2...d5 are popular variations that avoid the romantic / chaotic positions and require relatively less theory.
I agree but the fischer defenses somewhat slow play seems to make it difficult for an attack to be possible which requires you to rely on your center and active piece play to be compensation
I play 3...d6, but sometimes 2...Bc5
What I dislike about 3...d6 is if you forget theory your position can become very bad, but hardly ever face a KG player to practice.
He was wrong when he wrote this article.
3....g5 4. h4 is opening C39. There is nothing wrong w/ 3...g5.
Using it ?....Ivanchuck (black) won Federov in 2001 (Corus), Shirov (black) won Federov in 2000 (Rubenstein Memorial), Grischuk won Martinez in 2000 (Reykjavik Open), Shirov (black) won Short in 1997 (Madrid), Timman (black) won Nunn in 1995 (Amsterdam), Geller (black) won Wollman in 1995 (somewhere in Germany)....just to name a very few - as the list is loooong.
One should expect the King's Gambit to one day rekindle - into a bonfire.
....just watch.
stiggling wrote:
Choowd3 wrote:
you are inccorect about its overestimation at depth 50 it gives black -.5
You don't know how to use an engine.
i understand that that dosent mean black will win the game the position is simply better for black even at that depth however this is assuming perfect play which a human just wont be able to due of course its not a refutation it just gives black the best position he/she can hope for
Recently was checking out what stockfish 10 had to say about the kings gambit and on the lichess cloud analysis it seems to believe that fischers defense e4 e5 f4 exf4 nf3 d6 was the best move. Of course the genius Bobby Fischer would have found it.
If you go into some of those main lines, white is getting equal (or very close to equal) positions. The engines overestimate it early on, especially if you're using browser or phone to run the engine.
Also it wasn't Fischer's discovery.