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Should I learn the Dutch or Czech Benoni?

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PPS2

http://chess-db.com/public/game.jsp?id=14500086.14507200.146273024.25019

PPS2
ChessOath wrote:
PPS2 wrote:

And yes with the classic dutch black gets a  position with even chance's

There you go again. So, you believe the opening to give you even chances even if White knows all the theory, which you said he most likely doesn't. You also say that Black has "a lot more things to play that are better". Erm...

yup if you read what  the other thing's how much more solid.And by eqaul chances with theory i mean more like out of a hundred games white should win 10 more games.But nobody study's the classical dutch in deapth.

Dolphin27
pfren wrote:
Dolphin27 wrote:

I agree, every beginner should play the Queen's Gambit Declined and experience some losses until they understand the basic positional concept that bishops shouldn't be blocked in behind a wall of pawns. Once that's understood then they can move on to a better opening like the Slav.

Also the exchange variation of the Queen's Gambit Declined isn't a symmetrical structure and I've seen many d4 repertoire books recommending it. Though this variation will also teach the beginner a valuable lesson, of what the minority attack is and how easily you can drop pawns if you play an opening that allows your opponent to do this.

As for the Dutch vs Czech Benoni, I much prefer the Czech Benoni. The Dutch has always felt a bit too loose for me.

Are you like that since you were born, or it's a symptom of some rare disease?

It's called Bad Bishop Aversion Syndrome. It makes it impossible for me to resist developing my bishops outside of pawn chains.

mkkuhner

A good opening is one where you feel at home in the positions.  I've been playing the Dutch for decades and really enjoyed seeing Carlsen's two games in it (they were Stonewalls, by the way--he apparently doesn't think it's busted).  But someone who loves open centers and free and easy development is going to hate it.  The great thing about chess is that there are openings for every taste.

If you play over some master games in the opening you're considering, you can see what kinds of middlegames tend to develop from it and whether you'd feel happy with them.  If you're looking at the Dutch it's worth noting that the three major kinds are very different--I play the Stonewall pretty well, I like the Classical but don't succeed with it, and I am clueless about the Leningrad.

The Czech Benoni shares some of the ponderous blocked qualities of the Stonewall Dutch and a Stonewall player might like it.  Haven't tried it yet but it's on my list.

dude667
Dolphin27 wrote:
pfren wrote:
Dolphin27 wrote:

I agree, every beginner should play the Queen's Gambit Declined and experience some losses until they understand the basic positional concept that bishops shouldn't be blocked in behind a wall of pawns. Once that's understood then they can move on to a better opening like the Slav.

Also the exchange variation of the Queen's Gambit Declined isn't a symmetrical structure and I've seen many d4 repertoire books recommending it. Though this variation will also teach the beginner a valuable lesson, of what the minority attack is and how easily you can drop pawns if you play an opening that allows your opponent to do this.

As for the Dutch vs Czech Benoni, I much prefer the Czech Benoni. The Dutch has always felt a bit too loose for me.

Are you like that since you were born, or it's a symptom of some rare disease?

It's called Bad Bishop Aversion Syndrome. It makes it impossible for me to resist developing my bishops outside of pawn chains.

Hi,I would like to point out that the QGDeclined is a broad term which encompasses the Slav,the Orthodox,the Cambridge Springs,etc.I take it then you meant the Orthodox defense vs the Slav. As for the exchange variation,it is 100% up to white whether or not it will be played(cxd5) and therefore it makes no sense to recommend it to black.

Dolphin27

Hi, when people say Queens Gambit Declined it's assumed they're talking about 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6.

I didn't recommend Black play the exchange variation so I'm confused as to what you're trying to correct me about.

dude667
Dolphin27 wrote:

Hi, when people say Queens Gambit Declined it's assumed they're talking about 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6.

I didn't recommend Black play the exchange variation so I'm confused as to what you're trying to correct me about.

Not really, the Slav is only one of the defenses available to black in the QGD,there is also the Orthodox etc...2e6 characterizes the Orthodox,..2c6 the Slav.But they are both QGD. As regards the exchange variation,maybe it is just a misunderstanding on my part due to the fact that the OP asked for advice on what openings to play as black..

Dolphin27

Cool, so if I buy some books on the Queen's Gambit Declined like the ones by Neil Mcdonald, Matthew Sadler, etc I can expect them to cover the Slav too?

I know that in a broad general sense the Queens Gambit Declined can encompass those things but in everyday language when people say Queen's Gambit Declined they mean 1.d4 d5 2. c4 e6.

The original post was about Black openings, correct. My comment was not entirely directed to the original post, part of it was in response to another comment by someone else. Understand now?

dude667
Dolphin27 wrote:

Cool, so if I buy some books on the Queen's Gambit Declined like the ones by Neil Mcdonald, Matthew Sadler, etc I can expect them to cover the Slav too?

I know that in a broad general sense the Queens Gambit Declined can encompass those things but in everyday language when people say Queen's Gambit Declined they mean 1.d4 d5 2. c4 e6.

The original post was about Black openings, correct. My comment was not entirely directed to the original post, part of it was in response to another comment by someone else. Understand now?

As for the Slav being a much better defense than the Orthodox,I don't know where you got that idea but it is simply not true.They are both excellent,top notch defenses vs 1d4.

Dolphin27

I asked the bishops. They said they ain't worried about nothin and want outside of their pawn chains. If you give your soldiers what they want they'll look after themselves and each other so nobody will go MIA.

And if you don't listen to them you're going to come down with Melanpenia or Luekopenia. This is what Hans Kmoch taught us in his work, Pawn Power in Chess. It starts out mild, you play d5 and e6, block the bishop in hoping to solve it later, it seems almost inconsequential. However it can become more accentuated. This is why I like the Czech Benoni, my opponent usually has less bad bishop aversion than me and I succeed in trading mine off, leaving them with theirs. No regard for the dangers of Monochromy, some people.

AdarshIsMe

The semi-slav is worth looking at... but why are you worrying about openings, they don't matter much at your level, focus on tactics.

Novagames

OP last online 4 months ago.probably she left chess,

DrSpudnik

Who could blame her!!

Murgen

Of the two I suggest learning the Dutch.

You will always be able to play it in any game where your opponent opens with 1.d4.

With the Czech Benoni, both you and your opponent have more chance to deviate from it. Smile 

(Unless you only ever play in tournaments with the thematic opening you prefer of course! Wink).

SilentKnighte5
Novagames wrote:

OP last online 4 months ago.probably she left chess,

she?

srihaasdesu

You can play Dutch after 1.Nf3 or 1.c4, but Czetch Benoni is only playable after 1.d4

I prefer dutch for a 1244 rated player

srihaasdesu

Czetch Benoni is better if u really need a strong repertoire against d4