Sicilian VS French: Which is better?

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Avatar of Eseles
intermediatedinoz wrote:

Everything is good if played correctly.

"It's not enough to be a good chess player - you also have to make good moves!"

Avatar of chuddog
2Q1C wrote:

Play the French if you like wild crazy play. If you like more quiet games with not much theory needed play the sicilian

Careful. You'll break the sarcasm meter.

Avatar of Ziryab

If you want to surprise someone, you could try the Danish Morra (my invention): https://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-openings/is-this-the-danish-morra

That thread had several comments by a player who was banned. His comments were removed.

Avatar of MickinMD

P.S. I meant to add on my first post that the best way to surprise people is play solid opening principles that lead to a playable middlegame, then hit them with tactics - which is the primary road to improvement for most of us so-so rated players.

Avatar of Comeaux
chuddog wrote:

These are both extremely mainstream openings. For a surprise opening against 1.e4, I like the Nimzowitsch Defense, 1...Nc6. It gets the white player out of book immediately and leads to interesting fighting positions. I've successfully used it in last-round must-win games with black in multiple tournaments.

I love playing the Nimzowitsch, especially the lines after 1.e4 Nc6 2.d4 e5 3.d5 Nce7.  1.Nc3 reaches the same position and is fun as well.  If anyone wants to learn this defense, I recommend watching the series of videos on it by Youtube user GJ_Chess.  Personally, I've given up on his 1.e4 Nc6 2.Nf3 f5 lines.  I struggled to find something I liked against 2.Nf3 that wasn't e5.  I play d5 against that these days but I might change after seeing the user who suggested d6 and a pirc-like setup. 

 

Anyway, here's a great YouTube series on how to play the Nimzowitsch.  1...Nc6 

Avatar of Brobotics_brofessor

French will usually lock up your center with a space disadvantage unless you opponent opts for the exchange variation. Sicilian is aggresive and quite open. For a suprise, though, I always play Alekhine's defence where most people don't know the theory.

Avatar of imsighked2
Brobotics_brofessor wrote:

French will usually lock up your center with a space disadvantage unless you opponent opts for the exchange variation. Sicilian is aggresive and quite open. For a suprise, though, I always play Alekhine's defence where most people don't know the theory.

That's why I like to study at least the first five-to-eight moves of most openings. A lot of people discourage opening study for beginners and I do agree general opening principles, tactics and end-game study are more important, but I at least like to know what to do if someone plays Alekhine's Defense, 1. c4 or 1. g3 against me. I've had only one recent opponent play the French against me, but I see a lot of Sicilians (I'm studying the English Attack against most Sicilians). I'm learning the Tarrasch to play against the French and am in the middle of my first game with it now. Sicilian scores better for black.

Avatar of DerekDHarvey

What's the difference?

Avatar of Kingchessplayer2000

Fam, da Sicilian is WAY better trust me. No one plays the French these days unless they are like super duper experienced and like at least 2000 rating so do NOT play the French play the Sicilian cause you are NOT super duper experienced or 2000

Avatar of Sarozen
Minh_Chess_Midget wrote:

I'm looking for a response to King's Pawn Opening  that can surprise people, so I want to pick between Sicilian Defense and French Defense. Can anyone help point out weaknesses and strengths in the two openings?

 

 

You're not going to surprise people with a Sicilian or french. 

The pin variation is relatively easy to learn in the sicilian and isn't seen much... 

 

But if you really want a surprise: Nimzowitsch, Alehkine or Scandi. 

Avatar of chesster3145

I would agree, but the Pin also runs into some problems if your opponent is prepared.

Avatar of imsighked2
Sarogar wrote:
Minh_Chess_Midget wrote:

I'm looking for a response to King's Pawn Opening  that can surprise people, so I want to pick between Sicilian Defense and French Defense. Can anyone help point out weaknesses and strengths in the two openings?

 

 

You're not going to surprise people with a Sicilian or french. 

The pin variation is relatively easy to learn in the sicilian and isn't seen much... 

 

But if you really want a surprise: Nimzowitsch, Alehkine or Scandi. 

The Pin Variation threw me for a loop the first time I saw it, but now I know how to deal with it. It would be a nice surprise weapon.

Avatar of DrSpudnik

The question is ridiculous. I'll tell you which one is easier to learn.

Sicilian chapters in ECO: B20 to B99  (80 chapters)

French chapters in ECO: C00 to C19 (20 chapters)

Avatar of yuuki-asuna
Kingchessplayer2000 wrote:

Fam, da Sicilian is WAY better trust me. No one plays the French these days unless they are like super duper experienced and like at least 2000 rating so do NOT play the French play the Sicilian cause you are NOT super duper experienced or 2000

Umm, I disagree... I myself play the French, and by your definition of who should play it, obviously i meet it, i am 2200+. However, I have many friends who are successfully employing the French in their chess lives... 1700s, 1500s, and 1900s. So it is a matter of choice and preference. The Sicilian is very open and counterattacking, while the French leads to closed positions and accurate maneuvering. Often, the French can lead to attacking positions as well when Black plays ...c5 or ...f6 to attack White's pawn chain.

Avatar of TomPetty

I think objectively and at the highest levels Sicilian is better (I say this as a French player myself).

But at any other level , and especially your level, it does not matter. Why don't check out annotated games of masters played in both openings, and see what you like more. 

 

But surprise it will never be, they are both mainstream openings.

Avatar of generickplayer

At 1100 rapid level on Chess.com here, I learned that putting a lot of time and effort in studying openings (and not the middlegames that arise from them) like the Sicilian wouldn't help much. When I was still in the 1100s, virtually nobody played the Open Sicilian (the mainline) - they were playing some kind of response such as the Bowlder Attack (2.Bc4) or 2.d3 etc.

Stick to the French if you're OK with locked pawn chain structures AND symmetrical structures. Stick to the Dragon (Sicilian) if you're OK with very tactical and sharp chess. Stick to ...e6 Sicilians (Taimanov, Kan) if you want some decent counterplay without the game turning very sharp. I don't recommend the Najdorf, as there are way too many parts of the theory which can catch you off-guard.

However, it s unlikely you will ever get to play your line of the Sicilian/French at your level, as others on your level tend to stray from the mainline and play suboptimally.

Avatar of generickplayer
MickinMD wrote:The Sicilian Defense, especially the standard opening where White stupidly (in my opinion) trades away his QP for Black's QBP on move 3 and makes multiple early moves with his KN

Woah, woah. Did you just deny the analyses by grandmasters on the Sicilian?

Sure, White gives up his center pawn majority and gives Black a semi-open queenside file, but he gets a semi-open center file and a centralized knight (which Black can only reliably kick with ...e5, which weakens the d5 square and makes the d-pawn backward) in return.

However, I admit that I usually play anti-Sicilians as White, but mostly due to the reason that I hopefully catch my opponent off-book and neutralize some advantage he might get from knowing, say, 10 moves in opening theory for the Najdorf that I don't.

Avatar of generickplayer
Kingchessplayer2000 wrote:

Fam, da Sicilian is WAY better trust me. No one plays the French these days unless they are like super duper experienced and like at least 2000 rating so do NOT play the French play the Sicilian cause youin of are NOT super duper experienced or 2000

Lol, isn't it usually the other way around?

Pretty sure the Winawer has less theory than the Najdorf.

Avatar of generickplayer
Comeaux wrote:
chuddog wrote:

These are both extremely mainstream openings. For a surprise opening against 1.e4, I like the Nimzowitsch Defense, 1...Nc6. It gets the white player out of book immediately and leads to interesting fighting positions. I've successfully used it in last-round must-win games with black in multiple tournaments.

I love playing the Nimzowitsch, especially the lines after 1.e4 Nc6 2.d4 e5 3.d5 Nce7.  1.Nc3 reaches the same position and is fun as well.

Can't White transpose into a Scotch with a natural 3.Nf3 and thus sidestep any specific theory a Nimzo player has prepared?

Avatar of yuuki-asuna
iamunknown2 wrote:
MickinMD wrote:The Sicilian Defense, especially the standard opening where White stupidly (in my opinion) trades away his QP for Black's QBP on move 3 and makes multiple early moves with his KN

Woah, woah. Did you just deny the analyses by grandmasters on the Sicilian?

Sure, White gives up his center pawn majority and gives Black a semi-open queenside file, but he gets a semi-open center file and a centralized knight (which Black can only reliably kick with ...e5, which weakens the d5 square and makes the d-pawn backward) in return.

However, I admit that I usually play anti-Sicilians as White, but mostly due to the reason that I hopefully catch my opponent off-book and neutralize some advantage he might get from knowing, say, 10 moves in opening theory for the Najdorf that I don't.

You do know that 3. d4 in the Sicilian does go against the rule of "not trading center pawns for flank pawns"? Personally, I prefer 3. Bb5, regardless of 2... Nc6 or 2... d6, unless black plays 2... e6 or 2... g6