You can play c6 d5 against any opening
Thanks. I have been doing just that, just thought I had better double check before I spend a few more thousand hours on a false path. I like its simple (know it is far from simple in reality) set up. Though I have had a fair few games where it seems to take an age getting my King castled.
Under certain circumstances, you have to be prepared to play the Panov though. But it can still be good for Black.
It's called the Slav Defence only against d4 c4.
Otherwise, it wouldn't be a Slav Defence, because specifically, c6 defends d5. But it could be called a "Slav setup", or a "Slav-type defence".
"Slav Defence" is specifically d4 c4 against d5 c6.
Otherwise, it wouldn't be a Slav Defence, because specifically, c6 defends d5. But it could be called a "Slav setup", or a "Slav-type defence".
"Slav Defence" is specifically d4 c4 against d5 c6.
Exactly. I have been experimenting with a "modern defence vs all" and a caro/slav vs all etc, my study time (like most of us, I am guessing) is extremely limited. ie I will never be a pro chess player. I am neither smart enough or young enough. I guess I am looking for short cuts. Weapons with a lifetime of use. I guess like many of us, my memory for lines of movements is not great. I understand, develop, castle, look after the King etc, after that, I am looking for basic plans.
From my playing so far a slav/caro vs Modern type set up have seemed my most comfortable,
Is there an easy way to find out what all the variations are actually called?
Otherwise, it wouldn't be a Slav Defence, because specifically, c6 defends d5. But it could be called a "Slav setup", or a "Slav-type defence".
"Slav Defence" is specifically d4 c4 against d5 c6.
Just to clarify that point:1.c4 c6 2.Nf3 d5 is not the Slav. However, if 3.d4 is played then it is now the Slav via a transposition. I don't know if the London System, Colle-Zukertort, etc. can transition back to Slav though. That's beyond the scope of what I know.
… Is there an easy way to find out what all the variations are actually called?
Computer software has somewhat simplified opening terminology, changing it from the way that it has been viewed by many. Computer sources are apt to simplify and approximate actual human usage because it is pretty hard for computers to duplicate it. Nobody is an appointed terminology authority, but titled players are more apt to have an idea about what helps to convey important chess concepts to each other. Since they are also the ones who do most of the chess writing, it seems to me that it might be sensible to try to be in tune with the way they use language.
Otherwise, it wouldn't be a Slav Defence, because specifically, c6 defends d5. But it could be called a "Slav setup", or a "Slav-type defence".
"Slav Defence" is specifically d4 c4 against d5 c6.
Exactly. I have been experimenting with a "modern defence vs all" and a caro/slav vs all etc, my study time (like most of us, I am guessing) is extremely limited. ie I will never be a pro chess player. I am neither smart enough or young enough. I guess I am looking for short cuts. Weapons with a lifetime of use. I guess like many of us, my memory for lines of movements is not great. I understand, develop, castle, look after the King etc, after that, I am looking for basic plans.
From my playing so far a slav/caro vs Modern type set up have seemed my most comfortable, ...
There is some discussion of "London system or Colle" by Kornev in his two-volume Semi-Slav-Caro-Kann thing.
http://www.chess-stars.com/resources/contents_black_rep_d5c61.pdf
http://www.chess-stars.com/resources/contents_black_repertoire_vol-2.pdf
It really is pretty much an unrelated bonus for the reader. Without c4, the game is apparently not likely to become something with much resemblance to what one would see in a discussion of the Slav or Semi-Slav. One can choose d5 and c6 in a variety of situations, but my guess is that it is not likely to be much of a "short cut" if White does not play an early c4. If all you know is Caro and Slav stuff, you will be on your own pretty quickly anyway.
@kindaspongey: How are those books and do they discuss getting into a Panov?
… Kornev in his two-volume Semi-Slav-Caro-Kann thing.
http://www.chess-stars.com/resources/contents_black_rep_d5c61.pdf
http://www.chess-stars.com/resources/contents_black_repertoire_vol-2.pdf ...
… How are those books and do they discuss getting into a Panov?
I have never read them, but the table of contents gives me the impression that there are somewhere around fifty pages of Panov-related material.
http://www.chess-stars.com/resources/contents_black_repertoire_vol-2.pdf
You might want to consider whether or not you really want to undertake that much Panov reading. Overall, I get the impression that the Kornev books are dominated by an intention to provide lots of reference material. If it were me, I would first want to learn as much as I could from a book like First Steps: Caro-Kann Defence (where there is an emphasis on explanation).
https://www.newinchess.com/en_US/first-steps-caro-kann-defence
Sir, this is actually a very astute question, not silly at all. Short answer: making the Slav pawn move (....c6) will cost you more in tempo than the move is worth in defense (unless you're facing 2.c4). IMHO, That Slav move is primarily valuable when your Queen pawn is threatened on d5, and you want to back that pawn up to maintain Black's pawn presence in the center.
Neither London or Colle threaten the d5 pawn presence, at least in the opening moves.
Slav is a powerful move if Black wants to force a QGD, basically. It's so good, that when I'm on white, I now opt for the dreaded exchange variation. Just trying to maintain tempo and control the destiny of the game.
In fact, I could make a case that Slav creates weaknesses for black with regards to London. It's because Slav denies your Queen Knight his best spot in early development, and gives a long diagonal to the London Bishop, which is White's Queen Bishop. IMHO, Black should never let White lead an attack with the Queen Bishop.
IMHO, if I'm on black, and my opponent DOES NOT play 2. c4, I'm looking to steal the initiative, I'm looking for opportunities to eventually play ....c5! At your level of play, this could represent a great opportunity against equally ranked opponents.
The other day I was playing around with the analysis board and ...d5, ...c6 seems like it can be a reasonable way to fight the London System (and can be used against anything). But point taken that ...c5 very well may be a bit stronger in this instance.
Indeed. A major difference between the QGD: Slav & Caro Kann is the pawn play with e4 (and/or the e4 square itself). In the case of the CK, black takes back some initiative by forcing white to either decide to exchange or advance the e pawn (ie 1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 de4 4. Ne4 going into Karpov's Line 4. ... Nd7 or Bronstein-Larsen's 4. ... Nf6[!] my fav; 3. ed5 cd5 4. c4 Nf6 Panov-Botvinnik Attack; 4. Nc3 the Exchange Variation and lastly, the Advance Variation where it's pawn up time 3. e5 Bf5 where black is actually looking to exchange off his "bad" bishop) there are other variations not involving 2. d4, but we're just talking about the CK's perceived similarities to its "sister" opening. On the other hand, in the Slav, white is often looking to prepare a e4 break-thru with piece play (namely Nc3) while using the c4 pawn in conjunction, as a flank attack in the center. Ideally, the c6 pawn is the base of foundation to building a queenside pawn chain; gaining space and focusing there as a counter to white's brewing central play. I leave the variations concerning this type of play to you to R & D (I'm just lazy to note them all here otherwise you have to start paying me $ heh kidding. maybe) but I kind of hope you get my drift. You'll soon realize that similar structures doesn't necessarily equate to similar defensive strategies. I agree with most, playing a "Slav-type" set up is most definitely not the most ideal vs the London or Colle. Namely because in every case, you need to counter break in the center with ... c5 (ie QGD: 5. Bf4 variations, 1.d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nf3 Be7 5. Bf4 O-O 6. e4 c6 and white is forced to exchange; 7. d5 Bc5 giving up some initiative) in the CK, the delayed break c6-c5 is important too but doesnt lose a tempo (again I leave it to you to find out why exactly that is) as opposed to white's Bf4 set up in DQP openings either with orthodox Queen's Gambit (c4) or exotic/trending openings with c3. Anyways, best wishes my friend 😉
… Kornev in his two-volume Semi-Slav-Caro-Kann thing.
http://www.chess-stars.com/resources/contents_black_rep_d5c61.pdf
http://www.chess-stars.com/resources/contents_black_repertoire_vol-2.pdf ...
… How are those books and do they discuss getting into a Panov?
I have never read them, but the table of contents gives me the impression that there are somewhere around fifty pages of Panov-related material.
http://www.chess-stars.com/resources/contents_black_repertoire_vol-2.pdf
You might want to consider whether or not you really want to undertake that much Panov reading. Overall, I get the impression that the Kornev books are dominated by an intention to provide lots of reference material. If it were me, I would first want to learn as much as I could from a book like First Steps: Caro-Kann Defence (where there is an emphasis on explanation).
https://www.newinchess.com/en_US/first-steps-caro-kann-defence
A bit of study and practice as Black playing the Panov would probably be beneficial, but I agree, I probably don't need to specialize in it. Using the Slav/Semi-Slav as Black is what I am interested in, so some knowedge of the sister opening CK would not go to waste. All of those books sound useful.
[edit] in the line QGD:5.Bf4 1.d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nf3 Be7 5. Bf4 O-O 6. e4 c5*
Is there an easy way to find out what all the variations are actually called?>>
One way would be to join a local chess club that has one or two stronger and more knowledgeable members who would be willing to answer some of your questions, because half an hour with the right person face-to-face is probably better than five hours online asking the same things.
Like Najdorf I also like the 4. ...Nf6 line although I play the Nd7 line occasionally, but 4. ...Nf6 is just so much fun, but when playing serious chess I wouldn't dream of playing the CK .... it's my second string defence and against stronger players than myself I would always play my own Sicilian variation, which evens things up extremely effectively, since I'm the only one that knows all the "book". Against a stronger player than myself, I'd probably be out of my depth in some lines of the CK. Maybe even in the Exchange.
When the Slav is detailed in books it seems to be depicted as vs Queens Gambit, say my opponent plays D4 but slips into say London system or Colle, is the Slav carry on-able or do I need to look up something else. (does it have a name?)
I have decided to focus all my efforts on Caro-Kann and Slav as they have similar structures and seem to suit me.
Thanks for any insights. I know I am low and my focus should be on tactics (and it is in the main), I have just been trying things out lately to see how I like the lay of the land and Slav/Caro I am finding fascinating.