The first opening to learn

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cigoL

Hi all, 

I just wrote a blog post about what I think is a great choice for a first opening to learn. It's not just a matter of opinion, rather a choice based on what I consider rather "objective grounds". I enjoyed writing it, and I hope others will enjoy reading it, as well as learn something of course! 

Here it is: http://blog.chess.com/view/the-first-opening-to-learn

Have fun! Smile

Wou_Rem

I read it, but it's Bb5 not Bb6.
Ruy Lopez is extremely complicated by the way.

cigoL

Thanks! Corrected. 

What do you mean by complicated? I'm not saying it's complicated or not, all I'm saying is that it's rather easy to remember. 

Wou_Rem

Well there are many many varations that are completely dependinh on black's reply.
Each is very different. It's not an opening that really forces your opponent to respond. Really it's not about wether or not it's played 80% of the time but rather what replies reasonably good.
At move three there are atleast five or six replies that are considderd playable for black.

cigoL

Wouter_Remmerswaal, can you please explain why only 2 moves (3...a6 and 3...Nf6) account for 88 % of all replies at Black's 3. move, if "at least 5-6" moves are considered playable at that point? 

ReasonableDoubt, I appreciate your perspective, and understand your reasons. However, I think the Ruy Lopez is good for me exactly because it unchains me from the idea that I should "never move a piece more than once in the opening". This seems to be a great principle, but when it's ingrained as a rule, it stands in the way for progress in chess, I think. 

Can you (or anyone else) explain why White does not defend their e4 pawn after 4...Nf6? And also, why Black doesn't capture instantly (5...Nxe4)? 

Thanks!

milestogo2

The ruy lopez is a good opening to strive towards, but I think a more forcing line such as the Scotch game is a good deal more simple with far fewer lines to know then the ruy.  The old fashioned four knights is good for a beginner also, and involves some of the same themes as the ruy.  The main line of the guico piano is another good beginner opening.  I think the ruy is just too complex and embodies a sophisticated blend of strategy and tactics that most beginners are not ready for.

cigoL

Well, according to the database of master games Black only captures with Nxe4 in 14 % of all games, so it's really not that often. Anyhow, I'm still curious to know the reasons for not capturing instantly, and not defending instantly. Is it because of the tempo loss, or are there positional reasons?

milijones111

thanks. i read but i guess it will take some time for me to understand :)

can anyone please teach me how to master this game ?

Add me to ur facebook account so we can chat and play online :) . my profile is
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002947988414

kwaloffer
StefanHansenDanmark wrote:

Well, according to the database of master games Black only captures with Nxe4 in 14 % of all games, so it's really not that often. Anyhow, I'm still curious to know the reasons for not capturing instantly, and not defending instantly. Is it because of the tempo loss, or are there positional reasons?


I think you are showing that the Ruy Lopez isn't for beginners. These aren't easy questions!

theunderground702
ReasonableDoubt wrote:
The Ruy Lopez is wildly complicated and relies on complex plans and positional understanding.  It's also a closed opening so the same pieces are moved over and over again (Bb5-a4-b3-c2, Nd2-f1-g3-f5, Be7-f8-g7, Nc6-a5-c4-b6 to just name a few in the Chigorin variation), sending an awful message to beginning players.  The Ruy Lopez is a superpositional and complex mess that would make beginners give up chess as they'd think there's no way they could ever understand it.

 


That's right! Man, studying the ruy lopez would be a full-time job. And then actually sitting at the board in front of a chigorin or beyer defence and you know what a complicated mess is. I began to study it but I think I'm coming to grips with the fact that it will be the end of me if I continue to insist on playing this all the time at my level. 

You have to see so many things going on. If you miss just one subtlety it's pretty much done for you. I'm not even talking mistakes, let alone blunders, but just tiny inaccuracies alone can spoil the whole thing.

 

On the other hand, it can be said that the ruy lopez could be recommended on the basis of playing the bishop to the nc6 knight just so newer players can begin to understand pins as well as the Re1 significance/variablity of significance. There are many pins, discoveries and tactics that would make a player very keen. But I would certainly not recommend making it the opening of choice in competitive matches because you will get hurt - esp. as White, because in the lopez Black calls a lot of the shots.

 

If you really wanna get into it, at least wait til you're passing into elo 1800 and then get ready for a lot of theory and a lot of disasters until you start to really understand.

theunderground702
StefanHansenDanmark wrote:
However, I think the Ruy Lopez is good for me exactly because it unchains me from the idea that I should "never move a piece more than once in the opening". This seems to be a great principle, but when it's ingrained as a rule, it stands in the way for progress in chess, I think. 

Can you (or anyone else) explain why White does not defend their e4 pawn after 4...Nf6? And also, why Black doesn't capture instantly (5...Nxe4)? 

Thanks!


If you want openings that allow to move your pieces around, re-positioning and interpreting their best squares you need to play queen's pawn games - QGD variations would be a good place to start. Semi-open and closed Sicilians may appear positional but they are very goal-oriented and if you aren't aware of what you need to be doing then the other guy is gonna do it first and then you lose very quickly.

By the way, the fact that you're asking why somthing is happening on move... 4, is a very good sign that the ruy lopez isn't suited for your level I'm sorry to say. A lot of the variations go 10+ moves from the opening, and the final thing is that Black is able to almost force you to play the variation he has studied, or at least in a direction where he only has to study 2 or 3 things that could change from your response (if you're playing for an advantage).

theunderground702

In an attempt to illustrate why you should probably try other games, just think of the simple move h3. Many trainers and lessons tell us that playing h3/h6 as a profilactic move is a waste of tempo - and, in many cases it is. So just how confusing is it that you need to play it in some variations? When you're just learning not to play moves like that.

If you decide, for example, on move #9 after the main line, that you're gonna play d4 because h3 is a beginner's move, then the next turn you get a black bishop on g4. So you play h3 now, but he just goes to h5! Now you can choose: do you want to play g4 and invite a mating attack, or just let him sit there for the rest of your game. It won't mean you're necessarily losing, but it WILL mean that you'll be enjoying the rest of that game about about as much as this dog:

 

 

Wou_Rem
StefanHansenDanmark wrote:

Wouter_Remmerswaal, can you please explain why only 2 moves (3...a6 and 3...Nf6) account for 88 % of all replies at Black's 3. move, if "at least 5-6" moves are considered playable at that point? 


Because a6 is the main line and Nf3 is used as a drawing weapon on GM level.
a6 is played most of the time because it is thought to be black's best weapon again the Ruy Lopez.
But this still only means it is slightly better then any of the other moves and is only slightly better if you know how to deal with any deviatons. So all other moves are good, but a6 is slightly better.

This are a few playable moves. And after each of these there are a ton of variations.

cigoL

Thanks, everyone! 

It's wicked how you all seem to agree that the Ruy Lopez isn't something a beginner should dive into, while the Ruy Lopez is the first opening on the list in Chess.com's study plan for beginners (http://www.chess.com/article/view/study-plan-for-beginners-the-opening2). I wonder why that is.

milestogo2

If you play more direct and simple openings to start with  that don't require you to purchase a book or other materials to understand them, then you don't need the experts, right? Just call me cynical--

milestogo2

Joseph Blackburne, the "Black Death" of British chess in the late 1800s-early 1900s was one of the best attacking players ever, and he specifically did not recommend the Ruy , instead said that beginning players should play the Scotch game or gambit to find out "what they are made of". Tartakower, one of the best players of last century never played it although he was one of the foremost opening theorists and maybe the best game collection author ever.  He liked to get off the beaten path early, but had world class abilities for his time.

cigoL

I wonder if the idea that beginners shouldn't play positional openings is based on a false premise, namely: all beginners are better tactically, than strategically. It might be that 99 % of all beginners struggle with strategy, and find tactics easier to understand. If so, it's a good principle. But there might also be beginners who struggle with tactics, while finding it easier to understand the strategical aspects of the game. For those, positional openings might be better to start out with. I think it depens on what kind of person one is. Some are better at dealing with the concrete (like tactics), other with more abstract ideas (like positional concepts). As an example, my score in Chess.com's Tactics Trainer is 300 points lower than my rating in Turn-Based games. As far as I know, most people (at least beginners) have a higher score on the Tactics Trainer, than in Turn-Based games.

GM_cool

the first opening to learn are english opening,common opening,guccopiano opening

Hugh_T_Patterson

Teaching chess for a living, I think I can add my two cents in to the conversation. When I start with a student who only knows the rules, we begin our journey by learning the opening principles. I don't teach specific openings for the first 6-12 months, rather concentrating on a complete knowledge of opening principles. While learning these prinicples, we study basic tactics. The opening principles allow the student to deal with the variety of openings thrown at them. The tactics introduce them to the idea of setting up positions.

Most beginners are tactical players. However, there are those students who work specific openings. When I teach opening principles to students, I use the classical opening scheme of central control via the e pawn, the development of minor pieces and them castling. I move on to dealing with traps and handling gambits, all the while pushing the foundation of sound opening principles.

We start with e pawn openings and move to d pawn openings, concentrating on central pawn positions. It is not a one size fits all method however. I do have students who advance quickly so I might have them try the London System. I think that the opening a beginner learns has to make absolute sense to them. Trying to learn a complex poening beyond one's scope leads to problems.

I don't teach opening traps but rather spotting and defending against opening traps. The problem with traps and beginners is that they win a few games with a trap and then face off against a player who turns the trap on them.

I would also recommend watching master games in which the opening you're studying is played out so you can see how the mechanics work.

Caliphigia

I also think that Ruy is not the oppening for beginners to start with. Much better for them is Scotch, or simple Guiocco Piano - aka Italian - or Evans' Gambit. Quick development and a lot of tactics which what beginners need.