The practical refutation of the Sicilian Defense

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Avatar of Rogue_King

The e5 Najdorf seems so drawish.. 

Avatar of NeilBerm
JohnnyKGB wrote:

SICILIAN IS the big fraud of chess,  Why do you think  the Chinese Team  nowadays have chosen the Petroff Defense as the only truth in all of their games ?   The oriental mind is the most developed mind ever in planet earth and they can not be wrong,   was Buda wrong?  sun tzu was wrong? was wrong  Lao Tse?  no right, so they would not play the sicilian neither. 

 

Bhudda was Indian.

Avatar of Optimissed

In the example on #19, even after all those rather weak moves by black, black still has moves like 13. ...e5, which seems ok.

Avatar of Optimissed

was Buddha wrong?>>

Actually, yes he was. He couldn't see past the negatives of life and he imagined that arbitrary systems of thought like the nineteen-fold path to tying one's shoelaces was the ultimate truth or something. He was deluded, though. He had just gone a step or two on the path to self-realisation. wink.png

Avatar of Sarozen
yureesystem wrote:
Sarogar wrote:
yureesystem wrote:

Not so good against the Accelerated Dragon. 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 g6! 5.g3 Bg7 6.Ne2 ( or 6.Nb3) 6...Nf6 7.Bg2 0-0 8.Nbc3 b6! 9.0-0 Bb7 and black is fine. Its white who has to be careful not black.   There is no refutation in the Sicilian defense.  


I'm sure that is true. I don't know how many accelerated dragon players are going to even think of Bb7 though. 

This may be as JohnnyKGB suggests and a practical refutation. I just wonder how it plays out when the pawns are on e6 or g6 protecting the f5 square. 

 

 

I played 6.g3 against Sicilian, is not bad but no refutation. I all you can do is play sound opening and press for advantage, Sicilian is sound defense and players like Karpov, Anand, Fischer, Carlsen and Kasparov played it for dynamic quality hoping it will lead for a win against weaker opponents.

 

what are some of the ideas of the g3? 

Avatar of yureesystem
Sarogar wrote:
yureesystem wrote:
Sarogar wrote:
yureesystem wrote:

Not so good against the Accelerated Dragon. 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 g6! 5.g3 Bg7 6.Ne2 ( or 6.Nb3) 6...Nf6 7.Bg2 0-0 8.Nbc3 b6! 9.0-0 Bb7 and black is fine. Its white who has to be careful not black.   There is no refutation in the Sicilian defense.  


I'm sure that is true. I don't know how many accelerated dragon players are going to even think of Bb7 though. 

This may be as JohnnyKGB suggests and a practical refutation. I just wonder how it plays out when the pawns are on e6 or g6 protecting the f5 square. 

 

 

I played 6.g3 against Sicilian, is not bad but no refutation. I all you can do is play sound opening and press for advantage, Sicilian is sound defense and players like Karpov, Anand, Fischer, Carlsen and Kasparov played it for dynamic quality hoping it will lead for a win against weaker opponents.

 

what are some of the ideas of the g3? 

 I give you one example of the Dragon variation. Where you can torture your opponent because he doesn't know theory well. 

 

 

This is the kind position you might reach in Dragon variation and black won't be able to get comfortable position: strong player love this kind of position, black needs to defend well to draw and a lesser player will lose as black.

Avatar of mcris
Optimissed wrote:

was Buddha wrong?>>

Actually, yes he was. He couldn't see past the negatives of life and he imagined that arbitrary systems of thought like the nineteen-fold path to tying one's shoelaces was the ultimate truth or something. He was deluded, though. He had just gone a step or two on the path to self-realisation.

Very good place to display your ignorance. I recomend you read about on Wikipedia (at least).  

Avatar of Comeaux
  Why do you think  the Chinese Team  nowadays have chosen the Petroff Defense as the only truth in all of their games ?   The oriental mind is the most developed mind ever in planet earth and they can not be wrong,   was Buda wrong?  sun tzu was wrong? was wrong  Lao Tse?  no right, so they would not play the sicilian neither. 

 

 

I missed this at first.  Where do I even start. First off, I'd avoid calling Chinese people oriental. But I take issue with the next part. People see their high test scores from students and forget that it comes at the expense of creativity, divergent thinking, originality, and individualism.   This is why revolutionary inventions no longer come from China. They're a country run by complete fools, just like the poster claiming their mind is more advanced than others.  China brought the world guns and toilets and that's about it.  Not what you'd expect from the most advanced mind the world has seen.

Avatar of Sarozen
yureesystem wrote:
Sarogar wrote:
yureesystem wrote:
Sarogar wrote:
yureesystem wrote:

Not so good against the Accelerated Dragon. 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 g6! 5.g3 Bg7 6.Ne2 ( or 6.Nb3) 6...Nf6 7.Bg2 0-0 8.Nbc3 b6! 9.0-0 Bb7 and black is fine. Its white who has to be careful not black.   There is no refutation in the Sicilian defense.  


I'm sure that is true. I don't know how many accelerated dragon players are going to even think of Bb7 though. 

This may be as JohnnyKGB suggests and a practical refutation. I just wonder how it plays out when the pawns are on e6 or g6 protecting the f5 square. 

 

 

I played 6.g3 against Sicilian, is not bad but no refutation. I all you can do is play sound opening and press for advantage, Sicilian is sound defense and players like Karpov, Anand, Fischer, Carlsen and Kasparov played it for dynamic quality hoping it will lead for a win against weaker opponents.

 

what are some of the ideas of the g3? 

 I give you one example of the Dragon variation. Where you can torture your opponent because he doesn't know theory well. 

 

 

This is the kind position you might reach in Dragon variation and black won't be able to get comfortable position: strong player love this kind of position, black needs to defend well to draw and a lesser player will lose as black.

 Thank you. And I imagine similar ideas out of schevinigan?

Avatar of yureesystem
Sarogar wrote:
yureesystem wrote:
Sarogar wrote:
yureesystem wrote:
Sarogar wrote:
yureesystem wrote:

Not so good against the Accelerated Dragon. 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 g6! 5.g3 Bg7 6.Ne2 ( or 6.Nb3) 6...Nf6 7.Bg2 0-0 8.Nbc3 b6! 9.0-0 Bb7 and black is fine. Its white who has to be careful not black.   There is no refutation in the Sicilian defense.  


I'm sure that is true. I don't know how many accelerated dragon players are going to even think of Bb7 though. 

This may be as JohnnyKGB suggests and a practical refutation. I just wonder how it plays out when the pawns are on e6 or g6 protecting the f5 square. 

 

 

I played 6.g3 against Sicilian, is not bad but no refutation. I all you can do is play sound opening and press for advantage, Sicilian is sound defense and players like Karpov, Anand, Fischer, Carlsen and Kasparov played it for dynamic quality hoping it will lead for a win against weaker opponents.

 

what are some of the ideas of the g3? 

 I give you one example of the Dragon variation. Where you can torture your opponent because he doesn't know theory well. 

 

 

This is the kind position you might reach in Dragon variation and black won't be able to get comfortable position: strong player love this kind of position, black needs to defend well to draw and a lesser player will lose as black.

 Thank you. And I imagine similar ideas out of schevinigan?

 You are welcome. This is why I like playing 1.e4, many players complain about playing against the Sicilian but there many ways to handle this tough defense. If white know what he is doing he can win about 70 to 80 percent in the Sicilian, of course this is below master strength. 

 

  

White had the easy time in the game, while black was in pure agony. Laughing

Avatar of Optimissed
mcris wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

was Buddha wrong?>>

Actually, yes he was. He couldn't see past the negatives of life and he imagined that arbitrary systems of thought like the nineteen-fold path to tying one's shoelaces was the ultimate truth or something. He was deluded, though. He had just gone a step or two on the path to self-realisation.

Very good place to display your ignorance. I recomend you read about on Wikipedia (at least).  >>>>

Pls don't be such a pompous idiot. Let's talk about chess.

 

Avatar of mcris

"don't be such a pompous idiot": well this is called rude behavior, Mr. Englishman (?)

Avatar of fieldsofforce
mcris wrote:

"don't be such a pompous idiot": well this is called rude behavior, Mr. Englishman (?)

 

The English were so pompous that they conducted 3 Christian crusades against the muslims.  All the while declaring their incredulous religious story.  Not only a virgin birth, but a resurrection from the dead.  Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease!!!

Avatar of MitchtenKingandCrazy

check your topic name :p it says "shitilian"

Avatar of TwoMove

I think the English were only a major component of the third crusade led by Richard "lion heart" against Saladin. Although he probably thought his more important lands were in France, and spoke french himself,like most of his nobles.

Avatar of ebolakitty

I have found that the most effective refutation is not yo play it or play against it. Whenever 1. e4...c5 then resign. It's only online and not a real game. Life is too short to put up with that vexatious crap.

 

I do it for most queenside openings because I find them irksome. It is best to just resign, move on, and play some chess that you can enjoy rather than suffer through.  It keeps you sharper. Playing dog mess games takes a toll on your patience and creativity.

 

The Sicilian has a billion intricate lines and variations. You don't have to learn a single one if you decide never to play another Sicilian game as long as you live.

Avatar of TwoMove

In Schevengen/Fianchetto game above, instead of 11...b6 black can develop with 11...Be7 12a5 0.0. A bishop or knight appearing on b6 isn't so terrible for black, and position is roughly equal.

Avatar of Optimissed
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Avatar of Sarozen

@yureesystem

 

What to you play against  Sveshnikov? : e4 c5 nf3 nc6 d4 cxd4 nxd4 nf6 nc3 e5

I would imagine the g3 system bites on it's own pawn, but i guess the Bishop on g2 provides indirect control of d5? Perhaps the Knight on d4 drops back to e2 instead of the normal b5 or b3?

Avatar of yureesystem
TwoMove wrote:

In Schevengen/Fianchetto game above, instead of 11...b6 black can develop with 11...Be7 12a5 0.0. A bishop or knight appearing on b6 isn't so terrible for black, and position is roughly equal.

 

 

11...b6 might be a necessary to prevent serious crampedness in the queenside otherwise black suffer a lot. In otb game these are the type position I love, black is too passive and defending.  

 

 

  

Black was struggling for equality, the crampedness in the queenside hurt black: The fianchetto variation seem to give black if they are not prepare. I like this variation because is less theoretical than some of the mainlines. Good opening is not enough to win games, one must have good in tactics and endgame to win.