the Ruy Lopez

OK, stop accusing me of making things up.  I can have an opinion can't I.  My opinion is that I hate e5.  Fine, White can create a strategically WINNING position.  He can have a better one if Black knows what to do.  So please stop giving me baggage as to openings.  I have played every opening as Black (almost) and know what I am talking about.  So if you want to say I am making things up, go right ahead.  But e5 does nothing to fight for an edge and gives himself a challenge to equalize. 

You ARE making things up.  You can have all the opinions you want but you are stating them as facts.  White cannot even have a winning position.  Essentially the same thing at the GM level.  He can have a preferable one at best.  This is the same in all sound openings.  There is not a single sound opening that gives black an edge either.  Every response by black to 1.e4 leaves white with a slight advantage.  e5 does as much as possible to fight, but you cant expect an edge with black. 

I'm tired of this argument because all you ever try to do in forums relating to the Ruy is make fun of me and call me illusional.  And the funny thing is, we both have almost the same rating!  Does Kramnik call Anand illusional when Anand plays an old line refuted long ago and claims it as good.  Is it bad to go against the flow of preconceived concepts? No.  Dating back to the other forum, does Topalov make fun of Carlsen because he is young?  No.  So why do say those things to an equally strong player?

If I could only play one more game of chess, I would want it to be the Spanish game. It's chess at its finest.

Go RUY LOPEZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

j. r. capablanca wrote  the ruy lopez , one of the oldest and best of the openings. with the exception of the queens gambit, it is probably the strongest opening for white. every move of white is both of a developing and of an attacking nature.

I dont see what rating has to do with it.  I was not saying these things to an equally strong player, but to someone who was making things up and passing them off as fact.  I would have said them if you were far stronger than me.  You may in fact be stronger than me if you have improved a lot since your uscf rating.  Younger players have a tendency to improve rather quickly.  The argument doesn't really have anything to do with chess as such.  It is just an argument in logic and common sense.  If you insist on making claims like "white will be winning if he plays properly" then I'm going to keep telling you you're wrong.  I'm not trying to make fun of you, and the Ruy connection is simply because that is what you tend to post this stuff about.  Last time you were all "fact this" and "fact that" and "prove it" and eventually decided that perhaps it might not be so simple and decided maybe you weren't right after all, despite being adamant, and extremely arrogant about it initially. 

Ruy lopez rules

All right, you're right.  e5 is not such a bad move.  I still think that the Ruy does give White a winning strategical position, but it has yet to be proven.  Funny how I thought I found a bust in the Ruy with the Riga Variation.  Then when I got ripped apart by the bishop pair, I began to reconsider.  I seriously should start thinking before I post something controversial.

Well, even the Riga variation is probably fairly playable (but probably quite difficult and impractical) at most levels... Just not against Capablanca, who made the win for white look so easy. 

It is a tactical nosebleed for both sides.  If White doesn't know what he is doing, he will usually lose in the teen moves.  Same for Black.

I'm also a fan of the Ruy Lopez, from both sides -- the mainline closed lines always create a very compelling & interesting game.  I might have made all your same complaints about White as well, though... as a frequent e5 player, I have yet to see a Lopez here that went further along than the Exchange or Berlin variation.

I don't think it's so much that the opening has gone out of fashion, as perhaps your (the OP's) level of opponents.  Lower-level players, especially, seem to prefer forcing variations in almost any opening, that 1) are familiar, and 2) avoid a lot of theory.  Mainline closed Spanish doesn't fit either of those requirements.  As you play higher-level players, you'll likely start to encounter more mainline games, as it becomes increasingly important to play stronger lines, rather than forcing ones.

the ruy lopez was the first opening i learned, but i have to confess i never play it now, too well known.

I always play 1...e5 after 1.e4, in every king's pawn game black can get good attacking chances. The ruy lopez is the only king's pawn opening that really makes black fight for equality. I've been playing the schliemann defense lately, and getting good results.

pvmike,

       Someone (you) finally agrees the Lopez is good for White.  Probably those who don't know it don't play it.  I also play the Jaenisch Gambit (or Schliemann).  It is fun.  My friend's chess coach advised him to try playing it.

Ruy Lopez scores in my OTB games better than any other opening :  75% with White and 50% with Black. This is really deep and fine opening. Here to get real Ruy Lopez you should play with 1900+ rated players, otherwise your opponents will always play Exchange variation as White ( losing right to castle ) or will lose a pawn on the 6th move as Black, playing wrongly old Steinitz defense.

But realize that most of the statistics on the Ruy Lopez were made before much of the Marshall Gambit theory was constructed. Nowadays White and Black are considered to be nearly equal.

I am just saying, that Ruy suits me very well with both colors, by the way exactly in Marshall game I missed a win (got a draw), that would make it 80% with Black :).

ok thanks

I like to play it too. It's easy, but it's not, if that makes sense.