fine
but allowing smth good is weird, even if YOU have an idea; they also do
and whats wrong with d4 there
whatever
This time I ranked all 20 responses to d4 for black
Sort:
Ethan_Brollier wrote:
fremble wrote:
My rankings
1: Indian Defense (Nf6)
I agree that this is the best response. One if black’s most solid and flexible responses while also being not particularly committing to anything
2: Symmetrical Queen’s Pawn (d5)
A logical follow-up that puts a pawn in the center, keeping with opening principles, and is fairly flexible.
3: Horwitz Defense (e6)
A nice transpositional move that will almost always transposition into the French, although c4 allows transposition to the East Indian Defense.
4: d6
Capable of transposing into numerous variations of the Pirc and Indian Defense, as well as the English Rat. Another nice transpositional move, though leading to some more dangerous openings.
5: c6
Not much to say here. Solid, but blocks the knight. Likely to transposition into the Caro. It’s alright.
6: Dutch Defense (f5)
Although it weakens the kingside a decent bit, it’s perfectly playable for black. Only really good though if you like sharp positions, and white can get a decent position without too much trouble. A good opening, but black has to tread a bit more carefully than others.
7: Modern Defense (g6)
The Modern Defense is mostly fine. It’s fairly light on theory, though it can transpose into a Pirc with which black really has to know what they’re doing, as well as a KID. The Modern despite seeming passive is actually quite aggressive and confrontational, and so it’s good for players who enjoy sharp games.
8: Polish Defense (b5)
The problem with this move is that it’s extremely committal. On move one, black has already told white that they’re going to fianchetto their bishop and storm the queenside with a pawn avalanche. It’s very inflexible, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t playable. It actually is playable, and very interesting. Although it may be annoying to try and defend the pawn early in the game, black can also be equally annoying to white by pushing the pawn to b4 and following it up with a5 or c5, cramping white’s queenside and preventing white from developing their queen’s knight to a natural square. Not the best, but certainly worth a try.
9: Old Benoni Defense (c5)
Very aggressive and also inflexible. There are better ways to play the Benoni than to start with c5, especially since white can very easily form a pawn wedge on your queenside. It’s not bad though, and definitely playable albeit hyperaggressive.
10: English Defense (b6)
Transposes into the Owen’s Defense after e4. Aims to fianchetto the light-squared bishop. Very passive though. Usually leads to a Hippopotamus setup from what I’ve seen. Mostly meh.
11: Mikenas Defense (Nc3)
A mirrored Alekhine. Not good but not bad. Nothing much to say here.
12. St. George Defense (a6)
Fine against e4, but against d4, just play b5 first dude.
13. Englund Gambit (e5)
Gives white a free center pawn and is entirely reliant on an easy to avoid trap. The only good thing is it doesn’t cause a major structural weakness, which isn’t saying much.
14. h6
Like the St George, but you can’t play g5 because it’s just outright bad. Tempo wasting move.
15. a5
Gives black some interesting queenside attacking possibilities, but playing it on move one is a waste when it can be played with an even greater effect later. Tempo wasting move.
16. h5
Like a5, but replace queenside with kingside, and tack on a minor kingside weakness. Slightly worse tempo wasting move.
17. Australian Defense (Na6)
Develops a knight to an inferior square. A tempo wasting move that also prevents you from being able to effectively use your queenside knight in the beginning.
18. Nh6
Like Na6, but arguably worse since the kingside knight is generally more important in d4 openings.
19. f6
A tempo wasting move that weakens the kingside for no reason while also preventing natural development of the kingside knight. Just bad.
20. Borg Defense (g5)
Literally a free pawn and practically a free win from how much you manage to weaken the kingside with this move. If white plays e4 instead of Bxg5, you might as well just play f6 and end your suffering immediately. There is no reason anyone should be playing the Borg Defense. It isn’t even really a defense per se. It should be renamed to the Borg Surrender or something like that.
I think we pretty much entirely agree on everything except that you only considered the REALLY crappy Englund line and not all the various ones that are still not good but are technically playable presumably.
I’m not too familiar with the Englund mostly because I’m an e4 exclusive player, but I just know about the trap and that it’s generally considered trash, so I stuck it towards the bottom
fremble wrote:
Ethan_Brollier wrote:
fremble wrote:
My rankings
1: Indian Defense (Nf6)
I agree that this is the best response. One if black’s most solid and flexible responses while also being not particularly committing to anything
2: Symmetrical Queen’s Pawn (d5)
A logical follow-up that puts a pawn in the center, keeping with opening principles, and is fairly flexible.
3: Horwitz Defense (e6)
A nice transpositional move that will almost always transposition into the French, although c4 allows transposition to the East Indian Defense.
4: d6
Capable of transposing into numerous variations of the Pirc and Indian Defense, as well as the English Rat. Another nice transpositional move, though leading to some more dangerous openings.
5: c6
Not much to say here. Solid, but blocks the knight. Likely to transposition into the Caro. It’s alright.
6: Dutch Defense (f5)
Although it weakens the kingside a decent bit, it’s perfectly playable for black. Only really good though if you like sharp positions, and white can get a decent position without too much trouble. A good opening, but black has to tread a bit more carefully than others.
7: Modern Defense (g6)
The Modern Defense is mostly fine. It’s fairly light on theory, though it can transpose into a Pirc with which black really has to know what they’re doing, as well as a KID. The Modern despite seeming passive is actually quite aggressive and confrontational, and so it’s good for players who enjoy sharp games.
8: Polish Defense (b5)
The problem with this move is that it’s extremely committal. On move one, black has already told white that they’re going to fianchetto their bishop and storm the queenside with a pawn avalanche. It’s very inflexible, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t playable. It actually is playable, and very interesting. Although it may be annoying to try and defend the pawn early in the game, black can also be equally annoying to white by pushing the pawn to b4 and following it up with a5 or c5, cramping white’s queenside and preventing white from developing their queen’s knight to a natural square. Not the best, but certainly worth a try.
9: Old Benoni Defense (c5)
Very aggressive and also inflexible. There are better ways to play the Benoni than to start with c5, especially since white can very easily form a pawn wedge on your queenside. It’s not bad though, and definitely playable albeit hyperaggressive.
10: English Defense (b6)
Transposes into the Owen’s Defense after e4. Aims to fianchetto the light-squared bishop. Very passive though. Usually leads to a Hippopotamus setup from what I’ve seen. Mostly meh.
11: Mikenas Defense (Nc3)
A mirrored Alekhine. Not good but not bad. Nothing much to say here.
12. St. George Defense (a6)
Fine against e4, but against d4, just play b5 first dude.
13. Englund Gambit (e5)
Gives white a free center pawn and is entirely reliant on an easy to avoid trap. The only good thing is it doesn’t cause a major structural weakness, which isn’t saying much.
14. h6
Like the St George, but you can’t play g5 because it’s just outright bad. Tempo wasting move.
15. a5
Gives black some interesting queenside attacking possibilities, but playing it on move one is a waste when it can be played with an even greater effect later. Tempo wasting move.
16. h5
Like a5, but replace queenside with kingside, and tack on a minor kingside weakness. Slightly worse tempo wasting move.
17. Australian Defense (Na6)
Develops a knight to an inferior square. A tempo wasting move that also prevents you from being able to effectively use your queenside knight in the beginning.
18. Nh6
Like Na6, but arguably worse since the kingside knight is generally more important in d4 openings.
19. f6
A tempo wasting move that weakens the kingside for no reason while also preventing natural development of the kingside knight. Just bad.
20. Borg Defense (g5)
Literally a free pawn and practically a free win from how much you manage to weaken the kingside with this move. If white plays e4 instead of Bxg5, you might as well just play f6 and end your suffering immediately. There is no reason anyone should be playing the Borg Defense. It isn’t even really a defense per se. It should be renamed to the Borg Surrender or something like that.
I think we pretty much entirely agree on everything except that you only considered the REALLY crappy Englund line and not all the various ones that are still not good but are technically playable presumably.
I’m not too familiar with the Englund mostly because I’m an e4 exclusive player, but I just know about the trap and that it’s generally considered trash, so I stuck it towards the bottom
Yeah, if it were only that trap I’d put Englund at number 21, only slightly beneath option number 20, which is to say offering a draw on move 1 before resigning if White declines.
But no, there’s a line that goes 1. d4 e5 2. dxe5 Nc6 3. Nf3 d5 and from here White’s up a pawn temporarily but Black has chances and counterplay.
Jul 10, 2023
0
#45
fremble wrote:
I’m not too familiar with the Englund mostly because I’m an e4 exclusive player, but I just know about the trap and that it’s generally considered trash, so I stuck it towards the bottom
Black is up 2 Tempi while white is up a pawn.
Jul 10, 2023
0
#46
Ethan_Brollier wrote:
Yeah, if it were only that trap I’d put Englund at number 21, only slightly beneath option number 20, which is to say offering a draw on move 1 before resigning if White declines.
But no, there’s a line that goes 1. d4 e5 2. dxe5 Nc6 3. Nf3 d5 and from here White’s up a pawn temporarily but Black has chances and counterplay.
Even with only the trap it's better than g5 or Nh3.
Jul 10, 2023
0
#47
no
just no
Nh6 atleast doesnt lose a pawn, for less center control, and SLIGHTLY more development (especially the trap line)
Yerachmeal wrote:
Poweranony wrote:
Feel free to post your opinions and/or rankings. And let me know whether or not I should continue doing these, next with responses to Reti.
IMO it would go like this:
Bottom tier
20. g5 (Borg gambit): Basically a grob but a tempo down, the grob by itself is already a tricks only.
19. f6 (unnamed): The point of this move being....
If black wanted to play some sort of mirrored caro kann it is just not going to work. Attempts of symmetry on the kingside and queenside are not going to work because the queen and the king are different pieces. After e4, black can't even play e5 normally because black can not recapture, because of Qh5+. Black can play nc6, which is a transposition to the hammer gambit in the nimzowitsch defense, but if white plays nf3 and bc4 controlling the weakened diagonal and not allowing castling black is just going to have a hard game.
White can also play 2. nf3 controlling the e5 square, and at this point the best thing black can do is play f5 and play the dutch a tempo down. Why would anyone do that. f6 also deprives the knight on g8 from it's best square
18. Nh6 (unnamed): This defense only works in atomic chess. In normal chess, is just a misplacement of a knight. it does not control any useful square
17. h5 (unnamed): This defense weakens the kingside and does not do anything important for the position.
16. Na6 (australian defense): This defense was played by nakamura against Wang yue. This defense is definitely better than nh6 because in this, at least you are trying to set control on a more important square such as c5, but it allows white to simply play e4 and take over the center.
Low- middle tier
15. a5 (unnamed): This response also allows white to take over the center and does nothing but at least doesn't weaken the kingside like h5, so it's just a wasted move and not a lot more than that.
14. e5 (Englund gambit): This is objectively one of the worst moves you can play against d4, but i let it be on the low-middle tier because at least it has some tricks.
The hartlaub-charlick gambit has some danger if white takes on d6 and isn't careful enough after that, but the lines where white protects the pawn with nf3 instead of exd6 often lead to uncomfortable positions for black.
13. h6 (unnamed): This move also allows white to take over the center but at least it prevents a possible bg5 in the future.
Middle tier:
12. nc6 (mikenas): the point of this defense is to prepare e5 in the center. after 2. c4 e5 3. d5 black can play bb4+ prior to nce7. Which is why after nc6, the best approach for white is to push d5 followed by e4 and try to build up in the center. After e4, if black plays ng6 white's best move is h4 threatening to chase the knight and almost forcing black to play move like h5
11. c5 (Old benoni): The old benoni is better than all the other responses below it. it's still not that great. After d5, black can transpose into other lines of the benoni if white plays c4 against for example: 2.d6, 2.e6 or 2.nf6. However, white's best approach to those three responses is actually not to play 3.c4 but rather play 3.nc3 preparing for e4, which is why it's not so great for black.
10. a6 (st george's): This defense usually aims to play b5, it can also (sometimes, depending a lot on white's moves) transpose into a line from the modern defense. unlike other moves (1. h6, 1. a5, 1. h5) This move actually has a purpose and does not create a weakness compared to 1. a5 and 1. h5.
Usually an idea of white to counter b5 is g3 followed by Bg2, however black has some interesting ideas after 1. d4 a6 2. g3 e6 3. bg2 c5 and after 4. d5, exd5 5. bxd5 Nf6 attacking the bishop
9. b5 (Polish defense): Black plays b5, looking for a fianchetto on the light squared bishop and also controlling the c4 square. White can still play c4, which is kind of a reversed birmingham gambit where white has already played d4, but white's best approach is to play e4 controlling the center. black after e4 can play either bb7 or a6, being bb7 more common and kind of a reversed polish but with the option of white to play bd3 without blocking the d-pawn
White can also play 2. Qd3 which is a reversed german defense.
Overall b5 is not the strongest response by black but not a bad one.
upper-middle tier:
8. b6 (English defense): An ok weapon that often arrives to e6 b6 positions. White's best move is e4, transposing into the owen's defense. It can Transpose into some Queen's indian positions if white doesn't immediately play e4 and black decides to prevent it with nf6.
7. g6 (modern defense): Not a lot to say here. White can play e4 transposing into a normal modern defense, or c4 which either it's still a modern defense or transposes into a KID/grunfeld if black plays nf6.
6. d6 (OID/KID/English rat/Pirc): the move d6 usually looks to transpose to an Old indian defense/King's indian defense. White is allowed to play e4, which transposes into a pirc defense so you have to be familiar with this opening if you play this.
the situation where d6 is stronger is when white plays 2. c4 which allows black to play 2.e5 entering into an english rat defense, a strong defense if you ask me.
5. c6 (Slav/caro kann): this move is transpositional. If white plays c4, nf3, g3, black plays d5 aiming for a slav setup. If white plays e4, it's a transposition to a caro kann. If white tries to play the accelerated london with 2. bf4, black can answer with 2. Qb6 attacking the b2 pawn.
4. f5 (dutch): In this defense black usually tries to develop the pieces from the kingside quickly, take a control on the e4 square and also play b6-bb7 if possible. However, black needs to be flexible enough, because the setups (Classical, modern, stonewall, bb4) should be played depending on what white plays. You can not always play the stonewall for example against every white's setup. In the dutch, white's most played response at master level is 2. g3 because it controls the h1-a8 diagonal before black does.
If black plays 1. f5, black needs to learn what to do against aggressive responses such as 2. e4 (staunton), 2. g4 (Krejcik) or 2. Bg5 (Hopton attack). If black wants to avoid these responses, black can play 1. e6 followed by f5 but also assuming the possibility of a french transposition if white plays 2. e4 or 2. nc3
Top tier responses:
3. e6 (Horwitz): This is a great transpositional weapon. It can transpose into a dutch, QGD, english/owen defense, french defense, indian defenses with e6, benoni, catalan, etc. Black usually waits white to show their plan before they do. Black can also play the kangaroo defense against 2. c4. possibilities in this opening are a lot. This is a very flexible move.
2. d5 (Queen's pawn game): Not a lot to say here. Opens up the diagonal for the LS bishop and puts a pawn in the center controlling the e4 square, solid response by black.
1. Nf6 (Indian game): Controls the e4 square with a knight rather than a pawn. Most played response to d4 at masters level, developing a piece. You can play the indian defense that suits more you style: KID, Grunfeld, nimzo/queen's indian, bogo indian, dzindzi indian, OID, benoni, benko, etc. A very flexible move.
I kind of think you put c6 too high. Yes, it can transpose into Caro-kann or Slav, but in lines like this:
the c pawn is accomplishing nothing other then blocking in black's knight.
Also how is e6 where white could turn the game into the Catalan top tier?
You have to be a troll, right? Is an opening bad because it can transpose into the Catalan? No. Nf6, your number one move, modern theory's number one move, the engines number one move, can go into a Catalan. D5, objectively one of the best moves according to the computer, and theory, can go into the Catalan. Also, e6 that low? Below the ENGLUND GAMBIT?! g3 does not refute the number three move against d4. The. Catalan. Does. Not. Refute. The. Best. Openings. According. To. Literally. Everyone. Else.
Yerachmeal wrote:
fremble wrote:
I’m not too familiar with the Englund mostly because I’m an e4 exclusive player, but I just know about the trap and that it’s generally considered trash, so I stuck it towards the bottom
Black is up 2 Tempi while white is up a pawn.
better to do it like this
f4 isnt listed because thats +0.4, but heres the line anyways
in the main line its +1.6
Yerachmeal wrote:
fremble wrote:
I’m not too familiar with the Englund mostly because I’m an e4 exclusive player, but I just know about the trap and that it’s generally considered trash, so I stuck it towards the bottom
Black is up 2 Tempi while white is up a pawn.
You mean black has a lead in development at the cost of a pawn, but will immediately lose the gained tempo when they inevitably move their bishop to a better square than d6? Would rather be white every time
I feel genuinely bad for Yerachmeal, someone led him far enough on the wrong path that he doesn’t even know his way back
fremble wrote:
You mean black has a lead in development at the cost of a pawn, but will immediately lose the gained tempo when they inevitably move their bishop to a better square than d6? Would rather be white every time
Black doesn't need to move the bishop any time soon. He will play Nc6, Bg4, Qe7, 0-0-0 and have a comfortable game while white will have to deal with the Rd8 staring at his queen. I've played those positions literally thousands of times as black and it's so incredibly easy to play black's position there. Black scores so much better than white on lichess from beginner all the way to 2500. Taking on d6 is already an objectively an innacuracy and practically a very bad mistake, much better is 1.d4 e5 2.dxe5 d6 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.Bf4 or Bg5
Yerachmeal wrote:
fremble wrote:
I’m not too familiar with the Englund mostly because I’m an e4 exclusive player, but I just know about the trap and that it’s generally considered trash, so I stuck it towards the bottom
Black is up 2 Tempi while white is up a pawn.
No, Black is not up two tempi. Black gained two tempi but is only up one because White starts with an extra. That’s why most gambits are done with White, because the extra time is actually a threat whereas in… say, this line of the Englund, White has essentially switched from playing White to playing Black with e-pawn odds. Those are REALLY good odds.
Yerachmeal wrote:
Ethan_Brollier wrote:
Yeah, if it were only that trap I’d put Englund at number 21, only slightly beneath option number 20, which is to say offering a draw on move 1 before resigning if White declines.
But no, there’s a line that goes 1. d4 e5 2. dxe5 Nc6 3. Nf3 d5 and from here White’s up a pawn temporarily but Black has chances and counterplay.
Even with only the trap it's better than g5 or Nh3.
My guy, with the trap White WINS YOUR QUEEN in the top line. I don’t care how bad g5 is, you can maybe like win a tempo on the bishop later and pretend it was a gambit, or with Nh6 at least you win the bishop pair and you stop a potential kingside pawn storm from White.
GYG wrote:
fremble wrote:
You mean black has a lead in development at the cost of a pawn, but will immediately lose the gained tempo when they inevitably move their bishop to a better square than d6? Would rather be white every time
Black doesn't need to move the bishop any time soon. He will play Nc6, Bg4, Qe7, 0-0-0 and have a comfortable game while white will have to deal with the Rd8 staring at his queen. I've played those positions literally thousands of times as black and it's so incredibly easy to play black's position there. Black scores so much better than white on lichess from beginner all the way to 2500. Taking on d6 is already an objectively an innacuracy and practically a very bad mistake, much better is 1.d4 e5 2.dxe5 d6 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.Bf4 or Bg5
Sure, it’s a comfortable game, but Black is comfortably losing, there isn’t any compensation there, so any advantage you get as Black is NOT because of the opening, it’s because of your opponent’s mistakes, and in that case I’d rather play a normal opening so that if my opponent blunders a pawn I’m winning and not simply equalizing.
Jul 10, 2023
0
#56
PotatoesAndChess wrote: You have to be a troll, right? Is an opening bad because it can transpose into the Catalan? No. Nf6, your number one move, modern theory's number one move, the engines number one move, can go into a Catalan. D5, objectively one of the best moves according to the computer, and theory, can go into the Catalan. Also, e6 that low? Below the ENGLUND GAMBIT?! g3 does not refute the number three move against d4. The. Catalan. Does. Not. Refute. The. Best. Openings. According. To. Literally. Everyone. Else.
I'm getting seriously tired of being called a troll. Black won't let Nf6 turn into anything resembling the Catalan.
Jul 10, 2023
0
#57
Ethan_Brollier wrote: No, Black is not up two tempi. Black gained two tempi but is only up one because White starts with an extra. That’s why most gambits are done with White, because the extra time is actually a threat whereas in… say, this line of the Englund, White has essentially switched from playing White to playing Black with e-pawn odds. Those are REALLY good odds.
Black is up by more of a tempo than white starts with, because while it's kingsidebishop is already out white has to spend 2 moves getting it out, one allowing it to move out and one moving it out. Besides black becomes the aggressor here.
Jul 10, 2023
0
#58
Ethan_Brollier wrote: .
My guy, with the trap White WINS YOUR QUEEN in the top line. I don’t care how bad g5 is, you can maybe like win a tempo on the bishop later and pretend it was a gambit, or with Nh3 at least you win the bishop pair and you stop a potential kingside pawn storm from White.
Even with the trap black doesn't have to give up his queen.
Black won the only master game this position was reached in. I still think the trap is bad to be clear, but it's better than g5 or Nh6.
Jul 10, 2023
0
#59
Interesting to look through. Here's mine.
F tier:
20: 1...g5 (Borg Defense)
Losing a pawn for absolutely nothing. There's no compensation. It's just free.
19: 1...f6 (Unnamed)
You're weakening the king and letting white fully get the center for, again, no reason. This move accomplishes nothing.
18: 1...e5 (Englund Gambit)
The Englund Gambit... It has a few traps, but they're generally prepared for I think. Besides, white doesn't even have to know theory to just keep an extra pawn in the main line. They can just do this:
And white just has an extra pawn here. Of course, the main line stuff with 4.Bf4 is much better for white as well.
17: 1...Nh6 (Unnamed)
Will give black an awful pawn structure. Even if white doesn't want to take the knight, they can just take the whole center with 2.e4 meanwhile black has a knight on h6.
D tier:
16: 1...Na6 (Australian Defense)
Not ruining the pawn structure, but black will still have a knight on a6 while white takes the full center.
15: 1...h5 (Unnamed)
If your plan with this is to start a kingside attack, just wait to do so. White once again takes the center and you're a good bit worse.
14: 1...a5 (Unnamed)
Somewhat similar to 1...h5, but I prefer 1...a5 slightly.
13: 1...h6 (Unnamed)
A waste of a move.
12: 1...a6 (St. George Defense)
Also mainly a waste, but I prefer this waste by a slight amount.
C tier:
11: 1...Nc6 (Mikenas Defense)
2.d5 or 2.e4 (I prefer the former) and white is better.
10: 1...b5 (Polish Defense)
I don't know much about it, but I guess it's not the worst thing black can do.
9: 1...g6 (Modern Defense)
I do not like the Modern. I actually feel sad putting it this high lol, but I'd also have a hard time putting it behind 1...b5 at the same time. As white I'll play 2.e4 here and continue with my normal line against the Modern (Austrian Attack).
8: 1...d6 (Unnamed)
It's this low because after 2.e4 it very often will turn out to be a typical Modern/Pirc setup, but if white plays 2.c4, it's not bad.
B tier:
7: 1...b6 (English Defense (although @ThrillerFan is right about it not being the English if white plays 2.e4))
I acknowledge that this is probably objectively worse than at least the last two. However, since I simply have a thing against the typical Modern/Pirc setup, this will go ahead of them both. Still though, 2.e4 and white's better.
6: 1...c5 (Old Benoni Defense)
Generally this will lead to cramped positions for black after 2.d5. If white doesn't play that, black isn't much worse.
A tier:
5: 1...f5 (Dutch Defense)
This is not bad, but not my favorite either.
4: 1...e6 (Horwitz Defense)
In case anyone's wondering why this is behind 1...c6, it's because I get annoyed by the London System if my e-pawn is pushed so early, because my normal setup vs the London has (and is much better with) a bishop on f5. It's not bad, though.
3: 1...c6 (Unnamed)
I still won't get my 100% preferable position in the case that white plays the London, but I am at least able to put my bishop on f5.
S tier:
2: 1...d5 (Queen's Pawn Opening, 1...d5)
A great move, but, as @Ilampozhil25 said, it's not as flexible as the first.
1: Nf6 (Indian Game)
In my opinion, the best move against d4.
Let me know your thoughts on this if you have any.
Jul 10, 2023
0
#60
ThrillerFan wrote:
1) Putting 1...b6 ahead of 1...e6 is also a complete joke.
Look at this game here where I did the Owens's Defense (against 1e4, but it's the same thing as you said) against someone slightly higher rated than me. https://www.chess.com/analysis/game/live/82768874871?tab=review
if white can attack the king on e8, bring it to f7
but if white cant attack the king on e8, dont
huh?
also e4 f6 d4 Kf7 isnt good....
certainly not almost ahead of the sicilian
and still, why Bb5?
and still, is the nuremberg even decent?
Bb5 can be done for the same reason that it's done with the regular Ruy Lopez. Nurnberg at least has active play fr black, he can develop his kingside bishop, play d6, and reach a position somewhat like a reversed London. Look this thread is about d4 so if you want to continue this, please bring it to the e4 thread, unless it's relevant to this.