Traxler: Don't even think of playing Ke2!!!

Sort:
Yigor
pfren wrote:
Alltheusernamestaken έγραψε:

 Is this thread for titled players only?

Certainly not.

Now, please show us your wisdom: how white is winning after 5.Nxf7 Bxf2+?

For me, even something close to a small advantage for white would be OK.

 

LoL Don't fall in this nasty trap put by IM pfren, even Stockfish makes an evaluation error. peshka.pngwink.png

Alltheusernamestaken
DeirdreSkye wrote:
Alltheusernamestaken wrote:
Daniel1115 wrote:

I like how we have a non master chess player who thinks he is good enough to argue the strength of a chess position with two IMs

I like how dumb you are. Is this thread for titled players only?

    Keep posting man. We all need a good laugh! 

You are making everybody laugh becouse of how pathetic you are 

Alltheusernamestaken
pfren wrote:
Alltheusernamestaken έγραψε:

 Is this thread for titled players only?

Certainly not.

Now, please show us your wisdom: how white is winning after 5.Nxf7 Bxf2+?

For me, even something close to a small advantage for white would be OK.

Not hard at all:


6.Kxf2 is a draw or black wins

poucin
Alltheusernamestaken a écrit :
pfren wrote:
Alltheusernamestaken έγραψε:

 Is this thread for titled players only?

Certainly not.

Now, please show us your wisdom: how white is winning after 5.Nxf7 Bxf2+?

For me, even something close to a small advantage for white would be OK.

Not hard at all:


6.Kxf2 is a draw or black wins

you just make black side plays the way u want to show it is a win...

10...Nfd7!  (with idea Qh4 on Kxf2) wins for black...

Some games :

 

Alltheusernamestaken
poucin wrote:
Alltheusernamestaken a écrit :
pfren wrote:
Alltheusernamestaken έγραψε:

 Is this thread for titled players only?

Certainly not.

Now, please show us your wisdom: how white is winning after 5.Nxf7 Bxf2+?

For me, even something close to a small advantage for white would be OK.

Not hard at all:


6.Kxf2 is a draw or black wins

you just make black side plays the way u want to show it is a win...

10...Nfd7!  (with idea Qh4 on Kxf2) wins for black...

Some games :

 

12.Kf1 intstaly loses but you are right, Nfd7 is better than Bd7 but it's just a draw:

Also I found and improvement on the line I showed where white was wining 9.d6 instead of 9.c3:

 

pfren

Well, your analysis in the 1st example is ridiculous.

 

9.d6 is (of course) much better than the losing move 9.c3?, but quite unfortunately the analysis you have provided is even more ridiculous. Please try fixing it with your other hand (hint: 10.c3? is already bad).

EndgameEnthusiast2357

Why don't you just provide your own analysis then, I am not an expert level player. But we agree Ke2 is still the worst move in any case.

pfren
EndgameStudier έγραψε:

Why don't you just provide your own analysis then, I am not an expert level player. But we agree Ke2 is still the worst move in any case.

All you need to know is that 5.Nxf7 is a bad move, and this is very well established. There is no need to reinvent the wheel- white is (much) better after 5.Bxf7+, as well as Buecker's 5.d4(!) - end of story.

The main line after 5.Nxf7? goes 5...Bxf2+ 6.Kf1 Qe7 7.Nxh8 d5 8.exd5 Nd4 9.d6 Qxd6 10.Nf7 Qe7! 11.c3 Bg4 12.Qa4+ Nd7! (again) with a draw- I will let you find the rest of the moves, don't be lazy!

EndgameEnthusiast2357
pfren wrote:
EndgameStudier έγραψε:

Why don't you just provide your own analysis then, I am not an expert level player. But we agree Ke2 is still the worst move in any case.

All you need to know is that 5.Nxf7 is a bad move, and this is very well established. There is no need to reinvent the wheel- white is (much) better after 5.Bxf7+, as well as Buecker's 5.d4(!) - end of story.

The main line after 5.Nxf7+? goes 5...Bxf2+ 6.Kf1 Qe7 7.Nxh8 d5 8.exd5 Nd4 9.d6 Qxd6 10.Nf7 Qe7! 11.c3 Bg4 12.Qa4+ Nd7! (again) with a draw- I will let you find the rest of the moves, don't be lazy!

Nope, you started posting analyses, you can finish them too.

EndgameEnthusiast2357

NOTE: When I refer to the Traxler I am only talking about after Bxf2, not alternative moves by both sides before hand, like d4...etc

pfren
EndgameStudier έγραψε:
pfren wrote:
EndgameStudier έγραψε:

Why don't you just provide your own analysis then, I am not an expert level player. But we agree Ke2 is still the worst move in any case.

All you need to know is that 5.Nxf7 is a bad move, and this is very well established. There is no need to reinvent the wheel- white is (much) better after 5.Bxf7+, as well as Buecker's 5.d4(!) - end of story.

The main line after 5.Nxf7+? goes 5...Bxf2+ 6.Kf1 Qe7 7.Nxh8 d5 8.exd5 Nd4 9.d6 Qxd6 10.Nf7 Qe7! 11.c3 Bg4 12.Qa4+ Nd7! (again) with a draw- I will let you find the rest of the moves, don't be lazy!

Nope, you started posting analyses, you can finish them too.

Ah, OK then.

I usually do it for free, but my price for lazy guys is $50.

EndgameEnthusiast2357
Daniel1115 wrote:

I like how we have a non master chess player who thinks he is good enough to argue the strength of a chess position with two IMs

Did I say I am trying to argue? The point is in games where white is stupid enough to play Ke2 if he lets BxF2 happen in the first place, it is EASY to lose unless you know the exact moves. I showed like 10 possibilties and unless you play the EXACT moves at the EXACT times, you can lose to so many tactics AGREED? You think in a tournament you are going to remember all these lines?

EndgameEnthusiast2357
pfren wrote:
EndgameStudier έγραψε:
pfren wrote:
EndgameStudier έγραψε:

Why don't you just provide your own analysis then, I am not an expert level player. But we agree Ke2 is still the worst move in any case.

All you need to know is that 5.Nxf7 is a bad move, and this is very well established. There is no need to reinvent the wheel- white is (much) better after 5.Bxf7+, as well as Buecker's 5.d4(!) - end of story.

The main line after 5.Nxf7+? goes 5...Bxf2+ 6.Kf1 Qe7 7.Nxh8 d5 8.exd5 Nd4 9.d6 Qxd6 10.Nf7 Qe7! 11.c3 Bg4 12.Qa4+ Nd7! (again) with a draw- I will let you find the rest of the moves, don't be lazy!

Nope, you started posting analyses, you can finish them too.

Ah, OK then.

I usually do it for free, but my price for lazy guys is $50.

I am already paying 50 bux a year just to be on this site. Think they got enough money already with their 20 Million accounts, 1% of which are diamond members. LMAO

EndgameEnthusiast2357

What about something along the lines of this?

Alltheusernamestaken
pfren wrote:

Well, your analysis in the 1st example is ridiculous.

 

9.d6 is (of course) much better than the losing move 9.c3?, but quite unfortunately the analysis you have provided is even more ridiculous. Please try fixing it with your other hand (hint: 10.c3? is already bad).

Ok so stockfish' (9+) best move is ridiculous? Kf1 is totally losing.

Alltheusernamestaken
pfren wrote:
EndgameStudier έγραψε:

Why don't you just provide your own analysis then, I am not an expert level player. But we agree Ke2 is still the worst move in any case.

All you need to know is that 5.Nxf7 is a bad move, and this is very well established. There is no need to reinvent the wheel- white is (much) better after 5.Bxf7+, as well as Buecker's 5.d4(!) - end of story.

The main line after 5.Nxf7? goes 5...Bxf2+ 6.Kf1 Qe7 7.Nxh8 d5 8.exd5 Nd4 9.d6 Qxd6 10.Nf7 Qe7! 11.c3 Bg4 12.Qa4+ Nd7! (again) with a draw- I will let you find the rest of the moves, don't be lazy!

All the engines say that Nxf7 is best

Alltheusernamestaken
EndgameStudier wrote:

What about something along the lines of this?

9.Qf8 must be bad becouse afther Bf7+ the queen is stuck there and black is lost

EndgameEnthusiast2357
Alltheusernamestaken wrote:
EndgameStudier wrote:

What about something along the lines of this?

9.Qf8 must be bad becouse afther Bf7+ the queen is stuck there and black is lost

The queen can pick up the H8 knight but white has a more active position you might be right.

Alltheusernamestaken
EndgameStudier wrote:
Alltheusernamestaken wrote:
EndgameStudier wrote:

What about something along the lines of this?

9.Qf8 must be bad becouse afther Bf7+ the queen is stuck there and black is lost

The queen can pick up the H8 knight but white has a more active position you might be right.

Yeah but the knight is lost anyway and black can't castle and is losing his c2 bishop with no counterplay tongue.png

JamesColeman

If you leave engines on a decent amount of time they will not like Nxf7