Trying to to understand sicilian defense as a beginner? I don't get it?

Sort:
samchessman123

Thanks for all the replies.

@Blueemu: You drewa against Mikail Tal (magician from Riga). Wow nervous.png happy.png, that is awesome. I'm going to play najdorf for a while. It is clearly not a waste of time because,  you are going to face the sicilian a lot if you are an e4 player, and if nothing else, now I actually know what those sicilian players are trying to do against me. Previously when I face sicilian as white, they make queenside pawn moves, and I didn't take that seriously, now I understand they are really planning for a queenside attack etc. Now that I played it a bit I'm facing smith morra gambit a lot, any game where you crushed it. I checked a video on it and it seems with dragon players they don't have much tactics, but with nadrof players gambit has many tactics. I'm mixed with accepting the pawn or declining the gambit and playing d4 instead. 

blueemu

My game against Tal was in a clock simul, at the World Open in Saint John 1988. Tal had just won the World Blitz a few days before.

Just a note on naming conventions... if White is playing the Smith-Morra, then Black is not playing either the Dragon or the Najdorf, since both of those systems require a specific move-order that does not include a gambit by White.

Against the Smith-Morra, I typically used one of two systems... either accepting the Pawn (since I feel that the gambit is basically unsound) or declining it with a properly-timed Nf6. The system you mentioned (declining it with d5) is also perfectly playable, of course.

sndeww
Richard_Hunter wrote:

One of the biggest problems I had learning the Sicilian on this site is that nearly everybody wants to play the Bowdler defense LOL.

Attack. But yes, it was quite annoying to play those positions as black.

Happy_Trails_4

White is generally loath to play Alapin against.  Once white chooses otherwise, you've won the game.  Stick with it.  Sissy is the best response for black against e4.  Give it time... give it time, my friend...

najdorf96

indeed. NOBODY ever has "professional" knowledge in the beginning even if they hire a professional. Heh. They can only input what the receiver can manage. And even then, unless the student actually has a knack for the game, only experience will bring home the fruits (generally speaking of course). Soo yeah, I'd like to strike down that part of your post. You're just limiting yourself. Victim of circumstance, needless ta say on your part. Sorry, I guess I'm just a hard@$$; I just don't like superfluous posts that drone on. ANYBODY can be good at Chess. I am Testament to this. I have No Talent, I got "good" @ 23 or 24 (I forget-heh). Due diligence, commitment, resiliency and love for the Game. Imagine a player you admire, THAT person can be your Teacher, Mentor, "partner"~use the internet, resources to play over his games: annotate his games, your games. Have patience and build experience. Eventually Understanding will come, then your Philosophy. No doubt. Absorb from others (books, friends, life) but don't depend on others. Losses are a part of Life & Chess too, you know? It's all in the Plan. NOBODY is Perfect. Build yourself from within yourself...a Mindset. Use whatever resources you can get and never decry loss because you don't have it. Do whatever is in Your Control. Never regret or think about what is not.

Da-Vere

Great thread! Thank you posting this. I’m trying to learn but having a real slow time at it. 
@blueemu: I found your annotations really helpful. Thank you!

Checkers

I actually have the same question as the OP. 

Checkers
drobilka wrote:

I actually have the same question as the OP. 

I'm the type of person who has a completely random repertoire:

- I play 1.b3, 1.e4, or the London as White

- I play Scandi (w/ 2...Nf6) against e4

- I play this against d4:

I've looked at a lot of games, but I'm not sure which variation to choose/how I should start learning the lines. In the past, I've just looked at some games, watched some videos, play a ton of games, learn from them, and ask my coach for advice. Somehow I don't think this is a good idea for learning the Sicilian though, since theres a ton of lines/theory.

FizzyBand

"Trying to to understand sicilian defense as a beginner?"

-The problem

RussBell

IMO, the best book for understanding the fundamentals of the Sicilian Defense....an older book, but a very good  one....study it and you should acquire a good grasp of the Sicilian...

How to Play the Sicilian Defense by David N. L. Levy & Kevin O'Connell...

https://www.amazon.com/Sicilian-Defense-Macmillan-Chess-Library/dp/0020291914/ref=sr_1_2?crid=10ZS3QTD5IEVC&dchild=1&keywords=how+to+play+the+sicilian+defense&qid=1603579759&sprefix=how+to+play+the+sicilian%2Cmovies-tv%2C207&sr=8-2

also check out Hanging Pawn's YouTube Channel....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=impkeLfyyVM&list=PLssNbVBYrGcDUDYiWilH-mQxXM4ixS2z6

 

blueemu
samchessman123 wrote:

Also in Najdorf are there situation where black castles queenside, is this rare?

It is rare, yes, but does come up in some variations... particularly in the 6. Bg5 line.

Here's a game from the 1976 USA vs Canada match:

 

And a remarkably similar game from the University of New Brunswick Open in the same year:

 

tlay80
blueemu wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:

If I, as an expert, find the Sicilian to be a problem, you, as a beginner, will likely not succeed with it.

Depends on your priorities, and on how you measure success.

If the OP is only concerned with winning their next game, then there are probably better systems to learn. If they are more interested in long-term improvement, and in gaining experience with a wide variety of central formations, middle-game plans and tactical elements, then the Sicilian might be exactly what they are looking for.

Also, the OP will likely be facing opposition around their own level of strength, with no more expertise in the opening than they have... although it's worth mentioning that on the single occasion when I faced a super-GM over the board (Mikhail Tal in 1988), I played the Sicilian Najdorf as Black... and drew.

There's a video of someone drawing Tal in a simul in 1988.  Any chance we're looking at a young emu?

blueemu
tlay80 wrote:
blueemu wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:

If I, as an expert, find the Sicilian to be a problem, you, as a beginner, will likely not succeed with it.

Depends on your priorities, and on how you measure success.

If the OP is only concerned with winning their next game, then there are probably better systems to learn. If they are more interested in long-term improvement, and in gaining experience with a wide variety of central formations, middle-game plans and tactical elements, then the Sicilian might be exactly what they are looking for.

Also, the OP will likely be facing opposition around their own level of strength, with no more expertise in the opening than they have... although it's worth mentioning that on the single occasion when I faced a super-GM over the board (Mikhail Tal in 1988), I played the Sicilian Najdorf as Black... and drew.

There's a video of someone drawing Tal in a simul in 1988.  Any chance we're looking at a young emu?

Good find, but I don't think any of those guys is me. I was incredibly skinny with long black hair, and were were playing on a green-and-white paper board.

My game against Tal was by far the last one to finish, and we played out the latter half of it head-to-head, with a clock. Karpov and Djindjashvili were standing right behind me, leaning over my shoulder and watching the game. Bracketed by World Champions front and rear!... no pressure!

tlay80

The simul game I got to play (as a kid) was against Karpov, at the precise moment of his highest rating ever (coming off his thrashing of half the chess world at Linares in 1994).  I got clobbered, of course.  But I did have a look at the game recently and discovered that Karpov missed a mate-in-four.

king5minblitz119147

i have played both the dragon and the najdorf, and currently the najdorf stands as my repertoire. both have problems in having so many different pawn structures to deal with and so many move orders to know. i just prefer the najdorf because, among other things, white has to be more sophisticated to achieve anything, while in the dragon the primitive attacks still work and in fact are considered the most testing for black.

 

if you play the main line dragon and do not mind the yugoslav attack, then 2..d6 is the way to reach the dragon that does not allow the rossolimo. if you play the najdorf then you have to start with 2..d6, but there are some ways to still adopt a fianchetto. for example against 6 a4 in the najdorf you can switch to a dragon setup with 6..g6 now that castling long has been ruled out for white so no yugoslav anymore. also 6 bd3 can be met with a dragon setup with nbd7, g6 and bg7.

 

i find it easier to remember the theory of the najdorf if that helps you with your decision. in the dragon with the yugoslav, there are weird moves that you have to know as otherwise you're toast. i'm sure there are weird moves in the najdorf too but i don't think they are as many.

KariEgilsson
Richard_Hunter wrote:

One of the biggest problems I had learning the Sicilian on this site is that nearly everybody wants to play the Bowdler defense LOL.

I used to get really annoyed with that, but then I realised that I should probably be happy about it because it's just a bad opening for white. I still play the Sicilian, just not as much as I used to, but I really hated playing against the Smith-Morra and the Alapin.

samchessman123

Hey thanks for all the replies. There are many so can't respond to each one, but 90 percent were very useful replies. Thanks a lot

@king5minblitz: Yes I prefer the najdorf better, and I agree with what you are saying. 

@blueemu: Thanks for those games. Very fascinating. By the way how was "Tal as a person" in first impressions. Did he look socially awkward as his wife says

Tal's wife: Tal was so ill-equipped for living... When he travelled to a tournament, he couldn't even pack his own suitcase... He didn't even know how to turn on the gas for cooking. If I had a headache, and there happened to be no one home but him, he would fall into a panic: "How do I make a hot-water bottle?" And when I got behind the wheel of a car, he would look at me as though I were a visitor from another planet. Of course, if he had made some effort, he could have learned all of this. But it was all boring to him. He just didn't need to. A lot of people have said that if Tal had looked after his health, if he hadn't led such a dissolute life... and so forth. But with people like Tal, the idea of "if only" is just absurd. He wouldn't have been Tal then.[11]

 

blueemu
samchessman123 wrote:

By the way how was "Tal as a person" in first impressions. Did he look socially awkward as his wife says?

Yes, although so was I.

I had his awkwardness, but not his chess talent.

samchessman123
blueemu wrote:
samchessman123 wrote:

By the way how was "Tal as a person" in first impressions. Did he look socially awkward as his wife says?

Yes, although so was I.

I had his awkwardness, but not his chess talent.

 

Your rating suggests otherwise happy.png

Happy_Trails_4
blueemu wrote:
samchessman123 wrote:

By the way how was "Tal as a person" in first impressions. Did he look socially awkward as his wife says?

Yes, although so was I.

I had his awkwardness, but not his chess talent.

You cavorted with Tal?  That's incredible!  I wasn't even bjorn yet.  Yet, we know you're somewhat of a celebrity off in the hinterlands.