In the 8...Rb8 variation, Black has a tough time equalizing.
Two Knights' Defense 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Na5 6.Bb5ch c6 7.dxc6 bxc6 8.Qf3!
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Dec 6, 2010
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#203
sloughterchess wrote:
Just check out Tony's "contributions" to other posts. Considerable efforts to determine the soundness of the 8.Qf3 system was going quite well until Tony started his "troll" activity.
I think this is technically spamming, rather than trolling
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I should really suggest a "Report this post" button. It would be much more convenient than PMing the mods in charge of that forum.
In the critical 8...Be7 system, 9.Bd3 seems to be the only try for an advantage.
Post 218---c6 is the main line, but I am still trying to find anything good against 6.Bb5ch Bd7 is pretty close to equal; unless White can defuse the pressure and keep the pawn (a tall order) it is equal.
Post 219---8...e4 9.Nxe4 Nxe4 10.Qxe4ch +-
White can't seem to budge the 8...Be7 line. It seems White might have chances
here, but once it goes to a BOC ending, it is dead draw.
In the 8.Qf3 cxb5 variation there are at least 3 tries that White must be prepared to meet. Here is one variation that favors White. Two others must be addressed: 8...cxb5 9.Qxa8 Qd7 10.Qe2 Bxg2!? and 8...cxb5 9.Qxa8 Be7!? In this variation the choice of an antipositional move permits White to hold the extra material.
This is the second try in the 8...cxb5 line. Clearly if White can "get away" with 13.Qxe5ch and suffer no immediate dire effects, this cannot be good for Black.
Here is the next try in the 8...cxb5 system.
The try 8...h6 doesn't equalize i.e.
The only attempt to equalize against the tough variation 8.Qf3 Be7! was not my original choice 9.Be2 but the anti-positional 9.Bd3; typically Black chops on d3 with at least equality. Having lost repeatedly to ArKheiN, I went back to my original prefence 9.Be2 & found the following idea which was played in a couple of correspondence games between masters: The idea of 11.Nh3 anticipates the pawn push f5 & prepares to meet it in a new way.
KillaBeez wrote:
Would you care to comment on the following move sequence studied exhaustively by World Correspondence Champion Dr. Hans Berliner for decades with the strongest computer then in existence, Hitech, and he missed 3! winning strategies for White on just one move. Here is the critical position (By the way---Berliner's Gambit was analyzed exhaustively by World Champion Garry Kasparov in BCO2.) 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Nd4 6.c3 b5 7.Bf1 Nxd5 8.Ne4 Qh4 9.Ng3 Bg4 10.f3 e4 11.cxd4 Bd6 12.Qe2!! (The Muir Variation) 12...Be6. At this point Berliner missed 1) 13.Qf2--If there was nothing better Jerz has analyzed this as a win for White, but it requires a lot of computer generated theory, 2) 13.Nc3!? Nxc3 14.dxc3 Bxg3ch 15.hxg3 Qxh1 16.Qxb5ch Kf8 17.fxe4 +- (Black can stay a piece down with 16.Qxb5ch Bd7 17.Qe5ch Be6 18.d5 +/-) 3) 13.Qxb5ch!! That's right two World Champions missed a Queen check, winning material, forcing the Black King to move and winning on the spot. Here is the score of a game I played against Fritz 12 at 120'40 60'20 '30. 13...Kd8 14.fxe4 a6 15.Qd3 Nb4 16.Qc3 Nxa2 17.Rxa2 Bxg3ch 18.hxg3 Qxe4ch 19.Kf2 Bxa2 20.Na3 Qf5ch 21.Qf3 Qxf3ch 22.gxf3 Ke7 23.Bc4 Bxc4 24.Nxc4 +- According to GM Lev Alburt, White wins quite simply with b3/Ba3ch with an extra piece in the endgame.
Please, stop this crap in the forums. Just took a look at the chesspub forum posted by Conquiscador and got a chuckle out of that one. My favorite part was sloughter lecturing a GM!
We have all missed the obvious in this variation. If 8.Qf3 Be7 9.Be2 O-O 10.h4!!
A) 10...h6 11.Ne4 Nxe4 (What else?) 12.Qxe4 +/=
B) 10...Bg4 11.Qd3 Qxd3 12.Bxd3 Nd5 13.Be2 +/=
C( 10...Nd5? 11.g4!! +/-
Here's another try in this line: Unless Black has a serious alternative, this is the most aggressive line by Black; it doesn't appear to equalize:
In the first post I indicated that I preferred an active Queen in the 8.Qf3 variations to a passive Queen in the 8.Be2 variations. Here we see the most aggressive play by both sides. If Black can't afford to open the position, then it is doubtful any clear threats to regain material that White has the better pawn structure and the better pawn structure. Passive play that doesn't win material, repair Black's pawn structure e.g. if Black plays Nd5 and White plays Nxd5 and Black cxd5 Black capturing towards the center is usually equal or better.
Black can disrupt White's pawn structure with Bxh3, but the open g-file is good compensation. I leave the reader with following position for the centaurs.
Hi Paul!
Theory in the 8.Qf3 variation is evolving rapidly; it took me forever to realize that White can't play Ne4 and has to play Nh3. This slows the attack a critical tempo. Here is a refinement of the concept. I think that the Qa4 lines are drawish. Here is a better try for a plus.
Hi Paul,
I lookes at the Bb7 line and got thoroughly depressed until I realized I got the move order wrong. Here White has to force Black to commit either to Nd5 or Bb7. Here is what happens if Black commits prematurely to Bb7:
paulgottlieb wrote:
I'm a bit late to this party, and I don't have a blood feud going with anyone--yet!
Don't worry, just stick around and you will... 
Hi Paul,
White's chances on the Queenside improve by exchanging the e-pawn. All the endgames are winning for White. The h2 pawn is trivial unless Black starts a pawnroller on the Kingside. Moving the Bishop twice in three moves has to be questioned, since, in some variations Black might try Nf6/Bg4. What do you do after 8.Qf3 Be7 9.Be2 O-O 10.O-O Nd6 11.Nh3 e4 12.Qxe4 Bd6 13.Bd1!? Qc7 14.Nc3 White has good development and Bxh2ch is harmless.
According to Steinitz having all your pawns on the second rank confers a big advantage White. Again we should probably compare this position to the main line Steinitz Variation.
Just check out Tony's "contributions" to other posts. Considerable efforts to determine the soundness of the 8.Qf3 system was going quite well until Tony started his "troll" activity.