Wanted: UCO vs Caro-Kann

heck, i'd play 2.Nf3 d5 3.e5 Bf5 4.Nh4 >.>

The Anti-Caro Kann is something I despise when initiated against my CK. (The same reason I play it as White.)

I think you mean 3. ...Bf5 4.Nh4, but more thematic for black is to play 3. ...Bg4

One theme of playing this opening on the black side is the idea of ...Bf5 and then later ...Bg4 (from my experience) so if black can get in ...Bg4 on move 3 then he is ahead of the usual variations.

Gonnosuke: So I guess I'm right about that, that black is probably holding his own in the Nc3/g4 variations and is looking for a theoretical answer to the Nf3/Be2 variation.

IM Alex Lenderman recently came out with a video on the advance CK for chess.fm...If you have an ICC membership you might want to take a look. If you don't have an ICC membership you might want to get the free trial and have a look anyway!

I might try an Accelerated Panov attack

I do have an ICC membership but I haven't been on there in quite awhile.

play 3. Nc3 after 2. ...d5. Advances your development quicker than black can. And if black should then choose to play 4. ...Nd7 after 3. ...dxe4 4. Nxe4 , one of the main lines, 5. Ng5 is an excellent trap that even catches grandmasters occasionaly. consider this line

I wouldn't play 3.Nc3 with the idea that you will checkmate a black player who doesn't know anything about the defense that they are playing!

There seems to be a contingent among the 1.e4 players that they "just don't like playing against boring Caro-Kann players", and that they will basically do anything to avoid a boring regular Caro-Kann game. Even if it costs them a pawn or results in them getting a theoretically inferior position.

A typical Caro-Kann player typically recognizes that black's goal going into the game is to get equality, and a draw is a reasonable outcome.

That being said, I play it to win, because, well, you know what they say, right?

"The toughest thing to do in chess is to draw a drawn position".

It's not unreasonable to "play for the win" with the black pieces from the outset, but really it's overly ambitious. If you sit down OTB against an FM or IM, are you really telling me that you are not happy with an equal position with the black pieces?

Then again, with your rating here at chess.com, perhaps you are already a titled player and simply choose to play anonymously.

You know, it just occurred to me that one advantage of playing the Caro-Kann against 1.e4 is that you occasionally encounter people (like you) who are so intent on getting a tactical unbalanced position that they play an inferior line to achieve this aim. I suppose the unspoken dialogue goes like this:

1. e4 "I am going to mate you because I am a tactical player"
1. ... c6 "Oh yeah? Take that!"
2. d4 d5
3. Nc3 dxe4
4. f3?! "Ha! I don't care if I have to play a pawn down, I will get 'my' type of position"
4. ... exf3 "um, ok"

Last weekend I bought from a used book store: "Beating the Caro-Kann" which was written by GM Vassillios Kotronias (once ranked #57 in the world). Virtually the entire book is on the Caro-Kann Advance Varation. When I get through more of it I'll contribute more to this thread.

lol. It's actually listed here:

http://www.chess.com/opening/eco/B15_Caro_Kann_Defense_Rasa_Studier_Gambit

Gonnosuke: Yes, that's implicitly buried in the "um, ok" after black takes exf3.

Saccadic: Just because it's listed somewhere doesn't mean that it's an ok opening for white. Plenty of dubious openings have names and have tons of analysis, this is probably why they are considered dubious, instead of just "unclear" or something.

Also, let me know if you find that book well-written. One thing: when was it written?

I never said it was a good opening for white. Quite the opposite; I posted a link to the game explorer because I was surprised it's played by masters.

The book is from 1994.

Oh, ok.

Good, he probably recommends the Short system (white plays Nf3, Be2, o-o). I hope it's not an in-depth look at Nc3/g4 as a Caro-Kann killer. Can you give a brief preview? :-)

Ozzie:

What is your take on the White lines with 2.  c4 ?   

I've only looked through them briefly (nobody has played the non-d4 lines here against me so I haven't looked it up in games explorer), and they didn't seem too bad for black. I think I just haven't put as much time into learning them because if nobody plays it against you, then it's just time down the drain, right? :-)

Here is an interesting (I think) 2. c4 Caro Kann between a couple strong GMs, (complete with mutual blunders near the end) along with the main lines from MCO 15 that don't transpose back to the Panov Botvinik attack. (see the Move List and click the variations of interest) I've also included a 5. Qa4+ line from the recent (2007) Everyman Chess book "Play the Caro Kann" FWIW. (Most of the useful opening theory below is in the Move List and will not show up if you just play through the game itself)

For something quite weird and probably playable, there's this gambit: if i remember well, is called ulysses gambit.

Solid defences for Black don't always end in draws or equality. Take the Pirc, the Berlin Defence, or the French. The Caro-Kann is simply another one of these.

Personally, anything that offers Black winning chances and is more solid than the Sicilian is worth playing. (The Sicilian is dynamic, so its pawn structure tends to be less organized.) I believe it was Booby Fischer who first stated: "I believe the biggest turning point in my career was when I realized that Black did not have to play for the draw!" In other words, Black can play for a win.

The reason I favor the Caro-Kann is because I have recently found several lines that make the Pirc quite risky, and because the Sicilian is simply too much memorization. (Which won't help you in the long run.) The best refutation to the Caro-Kann is possibly the Accelerated Panov Attack; if White wants to smash Black early, of course.