Seriously, why do people play 2...Nc6
Weird Responses to Reti Opening
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Feb 26, 2019
0
#43
Trexler3241 wrote:
Seriously, why do people play 2...Nc6
1...e5 here is worse than 2...Nc6, losing a pawn without a plan of what to do afterward.
Mar 2, 2019
0
#44
IMHO.....Discussing opening theory of rarley played lines when rated 1200 is time NOT well spent.
Bullet sucks it's like a mindless version of chess
Lenudan wrote:
IMHO.....Discussing opening theory of rarley played lines when rated 1200 is time NOT well spent.
I'm 1900 on lichess now and my opinion is the same
Mi_Amigo wrote:
Lenudan wrote:
IMHO.....Discussing opening theory of rarley played lines when rated 1200 is time NOT well spent.
I'm 1900 on lichess now and my opinion is the same
Wow, now we all believe you because your bullet is 1900.
My BLITZ is 1900 mind you and classical is 1945
I don't play bullet
Your rapid here is 1600.
Has it occurred to you that it may be because I PLAY ON LICHESS
May 2, 2020
0
#53
Mi_Amigo wrote:
Even though Reti Opening is the Third-Most popular opening used by masters, I haven't seen any of the masters use it all the time Im on live chess or chesstv... and as black I have barely even encountered anyone who plays Reti Opening, but when I play it as white, many people give weird responses which make no sense, take a look
1.Nf3 e5?????
Now this isn't played much, but Ive played against it like 8 times on chess.com
it's no wonder that black is down
1. Nf3 d5 2. c4 dxc4?
this is one of the weirdest responses IMO to Reti Opening, after this, No matter how I react( don't take this literally) I'm up a move
Now after a few moves another weird line comes up
I asked one of the 1600 rated guy why he played that and he said "There was no point in trying to save the pawn, so I'm just forcing you not to take it with the knight" but Nc4 and Ba3 White is way ahead
1. Nf3 d6
Now I understand nothing about this
2 other lines I understand nothing about
A really bad response to this is a one which transposes to English opening and gives away tempo like the Gruenfield Defense
This refutes the reti
How are you 2045
May 2, 2020
0
#56
An_asparagusic_acid wrote:
Mi_Amigo wrote:
How are you 2045
The refutation to e5 is:
But the topic here is the Reti.
An_asparagusic_acid wrote:
Mi_Amigo wrote:
Even though Reti Opening is the Third-Most popular opening used by masters, I haven't seen any of the masters use it all the time Im on live chess or chesstv... and as black I have barely even encountered anyone who plays Reti Opening, but when I play it as white, many people give weird responses which make no sense, take a look
1.Nf3 e5?????
Now this isn't played much, but Ive played against it like 8 times on chess.com
it's no wonder that black is down
1. Nf3 d5 2. c4 dxc4?
this is one of the weirdest responses IMO to Reti Opening, after this, No matter how I react( don't take this literally) I'm up a move
Now after a few moves another weird line comes up
I asked one of the 1600 rated guy why he played that and he said "There was no point in trying to save the pawn, so I'm just forcing you not to take it with the knight" but Nc4 and Ba3 White is way ahead
1. Nf3 d6
Now I understand nothing about this
2 other lines I understand nothing about
A really bad response to this is a one which transposes to English opening and gives away tempo like the Gruenfield Defense
This refutes the reti
May 2, 2020
0
#58
@Mi_Amigo
The Reti opening is 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4. Sometimes other move orders transpose into the typical Reti variations. So yes, 1.Nf3 g5 would not be the Reti Opening and it would be unlikely that a Reti Opening could evolve from that move order. But that doesn't mean you have refuted the Reti. It's just a different opening and not a very good one for Black.
It needs be understood that 1.Nf3, by itself, is NOT the Reti opening. 1.Nf3 is just an opening move classified by ECO as Reti to honor Richard Reti, who was the first to devise a deep opening system based on 1.Nf3.
1.Nf3 is often played as a non-commital opening move. Black can respond with almost anything, but it's not the Reti Opening until White plays c4.
1.Nf3 was also played by Zukertort, but he would usually transpose into the popular openings of his day. He did not devise a deep opening system based on 1.Nf3.
1.Nf3 was also played by Nimzowitsch but instead of c4 he would follow with b3 and Bb2. It was called the Queen's Fianchetto or the Nimzowitsch Opening. Later, it was named the Nimzo-Larsen Attack or Larsen's Opening when it started with 1.b3.
Therefor 1.Nf3 as a first move in a chess game would be more suitably identified as a "Zukertort" and there are some who classify it as such. It only becomes the Reti Opening when c4 is added.
Some Reti variations overlap and duplicate the English Agincourt. Classification depends on whether c4 or Nf3 was played first.
May 3, 2020
0
#59
wormrose wrote:
@Mi_Amigo
The Reti opening is 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4. Sometimes other move orders transpose into the typical Reti variations. So yes, 1.Nf3 g5 would not be the Reti Opening and it would be unlikely that a Reti Opening could evolve from that move order. But that doesn't mean you have refuted the Reti. It's just a different opening and not a very good one for Black.
It needs be understood that 1.Nf3, by itself, is NOT the Reti opening. 1.Nf3 is just an opening move classified by ECO as Reti to honor Richard Reti, who was the first to devise a deep opening system based on 1.Nf3.
1.Nf3 is often played as a non-commital opening move. Black can respond with almost anything, but it's not the Reti Opening until White plays c4.
1.Nf3 was also played by Zukertort, but he would usually transpose into the popular openings of his day. He did not devise a deep opening system based on 1.Nf3.
1.Nf3 was also played by Nimzowitsch but instead of c4 he would follow with b3 and Bb2. It was called the Queen's Fianchetto or the Nimzowitsch Opening. Later, it was named the Nimzo-Larsen Attack or Larsen's Opening when it started with 1.b3.
Therefor 1.Nf3 as a first move in a chess game would be more suitably identified as a "Zukertort" and there are some who classify it as such. It only becomes the Reti Opening when c4 is added.
Some Reti variations overlap and duplicate the English Agincourt. Classification depends on whether c4 or Nf3 was played first.
It's not even automatically a Reti after Nf3 and c4. NONE of the follow are Reti's, and they all start 1.Nf3 and 2.c4 for White, and contrary to the end of the quoted post, which is also wrong, order doesn't matter:
1.c4 c5 2.Nf3 - English Opening
1.Nf3 c5 2.c4 - English Opening
1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.d4 - King's Indian Defense
1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd4 Nxd5 5.e4 Nxc3 6.dxc3 - English Opening - Anti-Grunfeld Variation
1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 e6 3.d4 Nf6 4.g3 - Catalan
1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 c6 3.d4 - Slav Defense
The list goes on!
1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 d4
1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 dxc4
1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 c6 3.g3 (or 3.b3)
1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 e6 3.g3 (or 3.b3)
These last 4 are all the Reti Opening.
May 3, 2020
0
#60
The Reti opening is more of an IDEA than a series of moves. Richard Reti was looking for an alternative to the classic way of controlling the center by advancing center pawns to occupy the center.
After 1.Nf3 if Black wants to control the center by way of occupation then 1...d5 is the only option since 1...e5 would be met with 2.Nxe5. 1...c5 would be a "flank" defense and then 2.c4 would be a Symmetrical English.
So Black plays 1...d5 and White challenges the d-pawn with c4, either right away or at some other time during setup.
Just as important as the moves, is the more abstract notion of holding back and controlling the center from the flanks with the double fianchetto. The d-pawn is usually developed to d3, the QN usually goes to d2, and it is not unusual for a Reti game to end with White's e-pawn still on e2, having never moved.
Within this framework there is a lot of room for variation. At certain points in the Reti development White can play d4, transposing to a Queen's Gambit or some other Queen's Pawn opening.
After 1. Nf3 d5 2. c4 dxc4 3. e3/e4 I'm usually happy when black answers with 3...b5, just thinking "I'm a pawn ahead, now I just need to keep that advantage".