ChesswithNickolay wrote:
But the ideas for both sides are all off. For example, try playing the Meran as white, or the Botvinnik Variation as black. Impossible.
but you don't need to play the meran or anything as white
What do you think of the Colle System
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Jan 27, 2022
0
#83
It's what happens when you get the move order wrong trying to play London, isn't it?
#101
"Colle is far from even played at master level"
That is not true. I showed games where Edgar Colle defeated World Champion Euwe as well as World Championship Challenger Bobolyubov with it. Also Carlsen has occasionally played it.
ChesswithNickolay wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
1. d4 ... d5 2. Nf3
is the correct move order for the Colle and black probably plays 2. Nf6, because white could be heading for a London or a queens gambit.
So ...Nf6
3. e3 and now black may go c5. Speaking for myself, I would play c5 at that point most of the time. Occasionally I may play e6 but c5 seems a good move and I do tend to play it. It being a good move.
If black doesn't play good moves though, isn't white in a better position still? The idea of the Colle is that depending on the position, white either prepares e4 or prepares an attack on black's king after black goes 0-0. Sometimes both. The Botvinnick Variation isn't the only aggressive variation of the Semi-Slav, after all.
But with c5, white has an extra tempo. The most popular ways to play against the Semi-Slav are impossible (Botvinnik, Meran, etc.).
So, now you're saying the Colle is good. You're right!
Jan 27, 2022
0
#86
The Colle system was pushed by the Blind champion George Koltanowski
after Colle died in his honor, they used to be friends . . .
That was back when George Koltanowski was prominent in the chess world in the 1940's & 1950's . . .
To me it was a mellow D4 system and not aggressive chess safe chess for white . . .
Just the opposite, Rich.
Jan 27, 2022
0
#88
Personally, I used to enjoy the colle because the game could erupt into heavy complications at any time. The only reason why I don't play it anymore is because black is able to equalize fairly easily in sidelines by trading off a lot of pieces, and there isn't a lot of strategical depth in the structure either.
B1ZMARK wrote:
Personally, I used to enjoy the colle because the game could erupt into heavy complications at any time. The only reason why I don't play it anymore is because black is able to equalize fairly easily in sidelines by trading off a lot of pieces, and there isn't a lot of strategical depth in the structure either.
Doesn't help when black needs to win!
ChesswithNickolay wrote:
One game doesn't matter at all. You cannot argue against a database.
Of course you can argue against a database if the games are sourced from kindergarten championships.
pfren wrote:
ChesswithNickolay wrote:
One game doesn't matter at all. You cannot argue against a database.
Of course you can argue against a database if the games are sourced from kindergarten championships.
Exactly, I had an identical argument with someone else recently. Some database where all the games were probably sourced from bullet competitions, where the ratings were all inflated, as they probably are here.
Optimissed wrote:
pfren wrote:
ChesswithNickolay wrote:
One game doesn't matter at all. You cannot argue against a database.
Of course you can argue against a database if the games are sourced from kindergarten championships.
Exactly, I had an identical argument with someone else recently. Some database where all the games were probably sourced from bullet competitions, where the ratings were all inflated, as they probably are here.
I get this feeling you had that argument with that someone else in one of my forums...
ChesswithNickolay wrote:
I am not talking about some trash database. I am talking about the Master's Database.
Chessbase Mega Database, updated since a couple of weeks ago. Only long time control games show, sorted by rating white. You are right, only a few patzers play the Colle.
With those idjits plying it, I definitely won't. Good job I'm not an idjit like they are.
**Offstage left** "No you're a bigger one in a totally different way!"
"Shut up!"
Marcyful wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
pfren wrote:
ChesswithNickolay wrote:
One game doesn't matter at all. You cannot argue against a database.
Of course you can argue against a database if the games are sourced from kindergarten championships.
Exactly, I had an identical argument with someone else recently. Some database where all the games were probably sourced from bullet competitions, where the ratings were all inflated, as they probably are here.
I get this feeling you had that argument with that someone else in one of my forums...
You mean threads? 
I think maybe so. Can you recall who that someone was?
ChesswithNickolay wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
With those idjits plying it, I definitely won't. Good job I'm not an idjit like they are.
**Offstage left** "No you're a bigger one in a totally different way!"
"Shut up!"
lol yeah agreed
Thankyou mr 12 year old. 
Optimissed wrote:
Marcyful wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
pfren wrote:
ChesswithNickolay wrote:
One game doesn't matter at all. You cannot argue against a database.
Of course you can argue against a database if the games are sourced from kindergarten championships.
Exactly, I had an identical argument with someone else recently. Some database where all the games were probably sourced from bullet competitions, where the ratings were all inflated, as they probably are here.
I get this feeling you had that argument with that someone else in one of my forums...
You mean threads?
I think maybe so. Can you recall who that someone was?
Yeah, not gonna name them though for ethical reasons.
Colle is passive, but venomous. I've lost to it a lot because I didn't know what to do.
Jan 28, 2022
0
#99
i dont remember colle system much
but zuckertort variation.. was better if i recall correctly. or maybe i liked it i dont remember exactly.
Suzan polgar likes it.. it was suzan right.. yeah correct. i found her video. this was a good video
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dorwTb_J1uc
dorthcaar wrote:
i dont remember colle system much
but zuckertort variation.. was better if i recall correctly. or maybe i liked it i dont remember exactly.
Suzan polgar likes it.. it was suzan right.. yeah correct. i found her video. this was a good video
Most strong players prefer the Zuckertort, as it is stratyegically richer than the Koltanowski. Both are perfectly playable, though.
here's the colle setup and semi slav setup. Oh boy. I can't wait to start listing the differences!
It doesn't matter if the setup is the same. The initiative is different therefore ruling out tons of the main lines.
If it was the same then I would have nothing against the opening.
i mean white has an extra move so it can't be any worse than black.