What is the best move after F4 in the bird's opening? (as white)

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llama44

Haha, no problem.

I don't watch sports, but my parents often had a game on TV, so I probably picked it up there.

These days kids are on their phone or tablets or whatever, and probably don't know what a TV is

sndeww
llama44 wrote:

Haha, no problem.

I don't watch sports, but my parents often had a game on TV, so I probably picked it up there.

These days kids are on their phone or tablets or whatever, and probably don't know what a TV is

we know what TVs are. How else will we play xBox, Playstation, and Nintendo Switch? Those GTA and Call of Duty... 

pfren
SNUDOO έγραψε:

@pfren, I don't think ... g5 works.

 

 

This has been played in a few games:

 

White will castle either side (long is still untested, but not bad), Black will get his pawn back, as well as the exchange (white can keep the exchange only by keeping his king in the center, which is not wise at all), and white is hoping to do something with his central control. I have analysed this quite a bit due to that thematic correspondence tournament, and found no advantage to white (it's just a bit more tricky to play as Black). I wouldn't really call it an advantage, let alone "consolidation".

GM Marin proposes 8.Nc3 instead, going for the annoying d6 bishop. However, my findings are that this does not promise an advantage, either:

 

I had this as white in the tournament, and the opponent played the horrific 11...Nc6? which more or less loses after 12.d4- but after 11...c5! Black has splendid positional compensation for the pawn, and he does not stand worse at all.

4...g5 5.c3 is just a second rate move which offers white nothing after 5...g4, so it does seem that 4...g5 is entirely playable.

sndeww

after 11...Be6 why doesn't white just play e4? Also, something about 12.Nd2, blocking the bishop, bothers me. Although I've personally never thought either of those variations existed, since the two bird books I have don't cover either of those lines (I think, but I haven't checked all the sidelines they give)

pfren
SNUDOO έγραψε:

after 11...Be6 why doesn't white just play e4? Also, something about 12.Nd2, blocking the bishop, bothers me. Although I've personally never thought either of those variations existed, since the two bird books I have don't cover either of those lines (I think, but I haven't checked all the sidelines they give)

 

12.e4?! is dangerous for white as long as his king is in the center. Apart from 12...f5 which wins the pawn back, Black can just continue development with 12...Bd7 and ...0-0-0, or even 12...Be6, since either 13.d5? or 13.e5? are losing on the spot.

Bird books? I have Taylor's, which is  severely outdated- most of his analysis does not stand under computer scrutiny.

 

sndeww
pfren wrote:
SNUDOO έγραψε:

after 11...Be6 why doesn't white just play e4? Also, something about 12.Nd2, blocking the bishop, bothers me. Although I've personally never thought either of those variations existed, since the two bird books I have don't cover either of those lines (I think, but I haven't checked all the sidelines they give)

 

12.e4?! is dangerous for white as long as his king is in the center. Apart from 12...f5 which wins the pawn back, Black can just continue development with 12...Bd7 and ...0-0-0, or even 12...Be6, since either 13.d5? or 13.e5? are losing on the spot.

Bird books? I have Taylor's, which is  severely outdated- most of his analysis does not stand under computer scrutiny.

 

I have Taylor's and Lakdawala's.

pfren

I don't have Lakdawala's, but I wouldn't take any of his books very seriously.

I think Marin's recent pgn database on Modern Chess is the most convincing coverage so far of the Bird (Marin strictly concentrates on the "Leningrad Bird", and on the Qe1 plan, while Danielsen advocates the c3 plan), but I think he did not work very hard on the From part.

Giraffe_Chess

I suggest playing 1.e5 against 1.f4! It's a sharp gambit with great practical chances for Black

Lion_kingkiller
ThrillerFan wrote:
LionWillCrush wrote:

@thrillerfan... Check again bro. Not a letter y. Or Y. Dummy.

 

Then what the hell do you call the second letter here if it's not a y?  Don't be telling me I'm wrong when you aren't even from this country and clearly have no clue about logos!

 

 

Ah... racism, what a surprise. Check your avatar pic dummy... you cannot see is a y or a Y or whatever. And who the F is NY Giants? A local soccer team or something. Never heard of them.

ThrillerFan
LionWillCrush wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:
LionWillCrush wrote:

@thrillerfan... Check again bro. Not a letter y. Or Y. Dummy.

 

Then what the hell do you call the second letter here if it's not a y?  Don't be telling me I'm wrong when you aren't even from this country and clearly have no clue about logos!

 

 

Ah... racism, what a surprise. Check your avatar pic dummy... you cannot see is a y or a Y or whatever. And who the F is NY Giants? A local soccer team or something. Never heard of them.

 

Instead of pouting and sounding like an idiot, why don't you use this thing called the Internet to find out who the New York Giants are, and what the National Football League is.  Watch a historic Superbowl (Basically the championship game each year) online.  Become educated!

 

Soccer?  Blah!  Football - American Football that is - beats that Yellow Card garbage!  The fools don't even understand the concept of counting down a clock to zero!  Instead, you have this ambiguous "stoppage time" where it is unclear when that ends.  Counting down, you know, you have 2 minutes and 43 seconds left, period!

DrSpudnik
Giraffe_Chess wrote:

I suggest playing 1.e5 against 1.f4! It's a sharp gambit with great practical chances for Black

I always thought white should answer e5 with e4 and we are in the King's Gambit.

DrSpudnik

I was going to say something about the New York Giants having moved to San Francisco some years ago, but the post above reminded me there is a football team also with that name.

Lion_kingkiller
ThrillerFan wrote:
LionWillCrush wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:
LionWillCrush wrote:

@thrillerfan... Check again bro. Not a letter y. Or Y. Dummy.

 

Then what the hell do you call the second letter here if it's not a y?  Don't be telling me I'm wrong when you aren't even from this country and clearly have no clue about logos!

 

 

Ah... racism, what a surprise. Check your avatar pic dummy... you cannot see is a y or a Y or whatever. And who the F is NY Giants? A local soccer team or something. Never heard of them.

 

Instead of pouting and sounding like an idiot, why don't you use this thing called the Internet to find out who the New York Giants are, and what the National Football League is.  Watch a historic Superbowl (Basically the championship game each year) online.  Become educated!

 

Soccer?  Blah!  Football - American Football that is - beats that Yellow Card garbage!  The fools don't even understand the concept of counting down a clock to zero!  Instead, you have this ambiguous "stoppage time" where it is unclear when that ends.  Counting down, you know, you have 2 minutes and 43 seconds left, period!

What... that crap where they have sissy helmet and body armour... and strippers dancing about?! Soccer is best popular sport. Game of beauty and romance. Croatia get Second Place in World Cup... robbed of victory, but our lion cubs play strong and proud. US failed to qualify. Having been crushed by... MEXICO.

Lion_kingkiller

Croatia also crushed Greece to qualify... and their idiot fans caused a Riot, lol. Greece and Serbia... beggars and thieves.

DrSpudnik
LionWillCrush wrote:

Croatia also crushed Greece to qualify... and their idiot fans caused a Riot, lol. Greece and Serbia... beggars and thieves.

The Balkans never really have changed much, have they?

ThrillerFan

First game completed (out of 8) in the Bird's Opening Thematic.

 

 

ThrillerFan
DrSpudnik wrote:

I was going to say something about the New York Giants having moved to San Francisco some years ago, but the post above reminded me there is a football team also with that name.

 

There were two teams called the New York Giants - One in football and one in baseball.  The baseball team moved to San Francisco.

 

There are other cities that used to have the same thing.  The Arizona Cardinals (Football) used to be in St Louis decades ago along with the still current St Louis Cardinals baseball team.

DrSpudnik

I forgot about the Football Cardinals, though I often wondered why they didn't change the name in the new town.

Lion_kingkiller

Soccer is king. US sport be rubbish. Apart from basket jump, which Croatia are good at as well.

ThrillerFan
DrSpudnik wrote:

I forgot about the Football Cardinals, though I often wondered why they didn't change the name in the new town.

 

Some franchises change names when they change cities, some don't, and when they don't, it doesn't make sense at all.

 

Examples:

NFL - You had the Houston Oilers.  They moved to Tennessee and became the Tennessee Oilers for 2 years before changing names to the Tennessee Titans.  All that oil they mine in Tennessee, huh?

NBA - The Charlotte Hornets in 2002 went to New Orleans and were the New Orleans Hornets for about 15 years before changing to the Pelicans and the Charlotte Bobcats took back the Hornets mascot.  The history of the Hornet's Nest is in Charlotte, NC

NBA - The Sacramento Kings used to be the Kansas City Kings until 1985.  Think about the rest of KC.  It's all royalty.  Chiefs (NFL), Royals (MLB).  Yet now we have royalty in California!

NBA - The best one!  1977, the New Orleans Jazz (where Jazz makes sense) has gone to Utah.  Go ask Mit Romney what he thinks about all of that Morman Jazz!!  LOL!

NBA - The Lakers used to be in Minneapolis!  Minnesota, the land of 10,000 lakes.  There are no lakes in Los Angeles.  It's just one big ocean that LA is an earthquake away from falling off and dropping into the ocean!