What is the best opening after e4 e5 nf3 nc6 bc4 bc5?

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Avatar of pfren
shivank2005 έγραψε:
Fromper wrote:

Before I give my own response, let me point out that I disagree with the question in the thread title. Until your first name is "Grandmaster", there's no such thing as "best". It's all a matter of what you want to play.

I don't like the 4. d3 stuff that's popular with GM's these days. If I wanted slow maneuvering that way, I'd play the Ruy Lopez. I go for the Italian to play aggressively, so I play the c3 and d4 line. But I go with Sveshnikov's e5 sideline instead of the usual Moller Attack, just because it's less well known.

 
 

I have Pinski's book on the Giuoco Piano and Evans Gambit, where he says this isn't good enough. He's probably right, but that's GM level theory. Below master level, it's certainly playable, and most opponents don't know it, so I always get a good game. When I used to play the Moller, I had a couple of games that stayed in book 10-12 moves, because people memorize that as the main line, but I didn't know how to proceed from there. In this, I know the most common responses after move 6, and most of my opponents are improvising, so that gives me an advantage from knowing the opening better than they do.

I've tried the Evans Gambit (4. b4) here and there over the years, just for variety. But opponents are more likely to know how to handle it, so it requires more study than I'm willing to commit.

the max  lange attack that i had said:)

 

Sveshnikov's line is quite different from the Max Lange (pawn on c3 instead of 0-0).

More than that, the Sveshnikov variation can be more or less be applied by force, while the Max Lange will not happen if Black does not comply.

Avatar of SmyslovFan
yureesystem wrote:
...

 

MCO has summary about opening or defense and going through the lines you be familiar with pieces placement and pawn structure and one or two model games and a player will have some understanding. Another way is repertoire book on the opening or defense with complete games and  with annotation. I love to see low rated amateur go through fifty GM games one particular opening without any annotation, it won't never happen, they can't even go through  an opening repertoire book with explanation and annotation;  because its left on the shelves collecting dusts. Is this the joke for today.lol Its not April Fools 4-1-2018.

I'm going to guess that the way you learned your first openings was either because somebody showed you some interesting openings or you saw some complete games that were annotated in a book. Those games could have come from Chernev, or as it was in my case, games from Spassky-Fischer 1972 and Alekhine's Greatest Games book. 

 

I sincerely doubt very many players who first came to chess by looking at opening books ever became expert strength players. I can't imagine a player falling in love with the game enough to study it in depth by opening MCO. 

 

Petrosian's recommendation of studying complete games, and others' recommendations of finding well-annotated games in a given opening are excellent and time-tested methods. Resorting to reference material on a specific opening should be one of the last steps in choosing a repertoire, not a first step. The reference material will help the player to solve specific move-order issues, but they aren't a substitute for experience. 

 

There's an old criticism of COTAP (Chess Openings: Theory and Practice by Horowitz) and MCO that is still pertinent:

 

Those books will give you just enough information to get into trouble, but not enough to get out of it.

Avatar of kindaspongey

There is a recent thread where the comments indicated that a number of individuals obtained Chess Openings Theory and Practice at an early stage and apparently went on to have decades of satisfactory involvement with chess.

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-equipment/my-first-chess-book

My experience is limited, but I would guess that there have been people who had the ability to do that. Some people seem to be abie to learn chess ideas with only a minimum of help. However, their happy experiences do not prove that it is a generally good idea to try to imitate them. For one thing, COTAP was published about 5 decades ago. It was a somewhat unusual opening encyclopedia in the degree to which it included verbal commentary and sample games. More recent encyclopedias have had much more of a focus on the presentation of tables of variations - something of limited value to many players who need more help in order to acquire understanding. Nevertheless, at one time, NM Dan Heisman advised players to obtain an opening encyclopedia at an early stage.

https://web.archive.org/web/20140626180930/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman06.pdf

I think the ideas may have been for players to get help with (1) the choice of openings for further investigation; and (2) post-game identification of mistakes in the opening. These days, I am skeptical about the encyclopedia-approach because (a) there are now many books that try to provide opening-selection help in ways that are more readable than tables of moves;

https://web.archive.org/web/20140627132508/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen173.pdf

https://web.archive.org/web/20140708093123/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/review756.pdf

(b) the last MCO was about a decade ago;

https://web.archive.org/web/20140626165820/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen110.pdf

(c) computer products seem to have become the primary way that players acquire this sort of information;

https://web.archive.org/web/20140626174228/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen165.pdf

(d) it is now possible to look up a move sequence online; and (e) specific-opening reference books can be more helpful with explanation and details about a line. I agree that some specific-opening reference books are of limited utility to the beginning player, but I think it is worthwhile to keep in mind that some of them are largely collections of complete games, together with authoritative and helpful explanations.

https://web.archive.org/web/20140627055734/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen38.pdf

Avatar of kindaspongey
[COMMENT DELETED]
Avatar of MikeZeggelaar

I play b4 after Bc5

Avatar of Max166

B4????????

Avatar of Nicholas166
Max166 wrote:

B4????????

Evans gambit you bum!!

Avatar of xxjuniortidxx

in my opinion:

#blacksucked

 

Avatar of kindaspongey

I think 8...Bxc3 is the usual book move.

Avatar of Max166
[COMMENT DELETED]
Avatar of Max166

Man I totally agree with xxjuniortidxx (He is my friend in school)

Avatar of pfren
kindaspongey έγραψε:

I think 8...Bxc3 is the usual book move.

 

Very true. Now 9.d5 and Black has a choice of good moves, namely 9...Ne5 and 9...Bf6. Both are fine- 9...Bf6 is more ambitious (and complex).

Avatar of Nicholas166
xxjuniortidxx wrote:

in my opinion:

#blacksucked

 

Black could play 8. ...be7

Avatar of Max166

Then white takes knight

Avatar of Nicholas166

Sorry after nxc3

Avatar of kindaspongey

In 1997, GM Gabor Kallai evaluated this as a clear advantage for White.



Avatar of Nicholas166

Then oh yeah what my chess teacher taught me d5!

Avatar of kindaspongey

In 1999, GM John Nunn evaluated this as slightly better for White.

Avatar of TimmInMinn

Max166 wrote:

In my opinion, it is this: 

 

very nice

Avatar of nescitus

4.b4, 4. c3, 4.d3 followed by 5.c3, 4,0-0, are all fine. But please, don't play 4.Nc3 or 5.Nc3. I know that making your opponent fall asleep, so that he rests his head on a chessboard, accidentally poking his eye out with a Bishop, is perfectly valid winning strategy, but please refrain from using it.