Well if I lost to the traxler (though I don't play 3 bc4 and not much 1 e4 so that wouldn't happen) I would be embarrased and as a result try to destroy it next time I face it by studying. That's basically what fischer did when he lost to spassky in the king's gambit, and claimed to have refuted it! If black is still ok after many moves it might be practical if you like sharp positions, but I would be happy to be in the superior position. But if they are unprepared, that's perfect. I don't want to play the king's gambit and similar openings because for one I'm not all attack at all costs 2. It makes you attack at all costs and 3. I think it would stunt my chess growth because if I got to a very high rating and i put a lot of work into the kg my opponents would simply study up and make me suffer. I don't deny that it can work against anyone under 2000, but this is just short term wins and won't help someone who's trying to be better. Spassky is kind of an exception because he's just too good with it but he studied that gambit for hundreds of hours probably and he's usually better than his opponents as well all adding up well but it would be way too hard for anyone else to do that.
What is the best response to 1...d5
But realistically if you lost to the traxler, then studying up on it (takes a bit of time) is closing the barn door after the cows left.
Why not close it ahead of time -- someone should publish a page which shows "how to play against the trick openings", not the most critical variations but something which gives an ok advantage.
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e5?! 3.dxe5 Ng4 4.Bf4 Nc6 5.Nf3 Bb4+ 6.Nbd2 Qe7 7.e3
This can be chapter 1.
That is a good strategy but I don't like to accept that their unclear opening is good and so I have to settle for a worse line because I think I will lose if I try for too high of an advantage. It's like how fischer liked to "crush their ego" it had nothing to do with actual chess, but that's what made him happy. I want to prove that an opening is suspect if it actually is but there is nothing wrong really with going for the small edge with low risk.
It depends on your style :P
2. Nf3?!
Why hasn't someone published a way to win by force against the Halloween Gambit? Because it's so obscure that it's not worth the time and trouble.
Well I think it should be studied more whether it is or isn't. Why wouldn't someone want to look at a rediculous opening line where white can try to get away with a piece sac and challenge it hard? So it must be the lack of popularity of the line with not many people even knowing it's a line (it took me awhile to find out about it as well). It's really not even considered by MCO.
Proving something unsound is difficult. The Halloween Gambit is a perfect example. When you first see it you think there's no way it can be sound. It looks trappy and desperate and even though you don't see a clear way to refute it, you're pretty sure there's a refutation out there somewhere waiting to be found. But when you start looking for it you realize that all of the so called "refutations" involve black returning the material. Why hasn't someone published a way to win by force against the Halloween Gambit? Because it's so obscure that it's not worth the time and trouble. It's easier to give back the material and settle for the draw. The only people who care enough are people who play it from the white side...which is why it takes an HG player to defeat the HG. For example, look at a player here named RosarioVampire. He plays the HG exclusively. Most of his games are over in under 30 moves and the only games he's lost are to other Halloween players. With a record like that, why should he play something else? He's doing just fine with an opening that everyone agrees is unsound. Go figure.
1.e4 c6!
Well I don't understand how black is justified in playing ...Bxf2+ without the knight on g4. If this was true, then couldn't white just play Bxf7+ instead of Ng5? I haven't actually looked deeper than that though. Nxf7 looks very natural by the way.
no,don't play Nxf7 unless u REALLY know what you are doing,look at how i got smashed in 10 moves...
exd5 is the best move. Yes, it loses the center, but it gains a two tempos after a forced 2. Qxd5 Nc3. After this, the queen must retreat, leaving white up two tempos in development.
are you sure its not tempi?
Well, 6.Kf1 statistically is somewhat poor for white. My line that I play is
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 Bc5 5.Nxf7 Bxf2+ 6.Kxf2 Nxe4+ 7.Ke3!?
Extremely agressive and black has to prove he can justify giving up so much material.
Black players better know this line if they play the Traxler against me or they will be in trouble.
Well, 6.Kf1 statistically is somewhat poor for white. My line that I play is
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 Bc5 5.Nxf7 Bxf2+ 6.Kxf2 Nxe4+ 7.Ke3!?
Extremely agressive and black has to prove he can justify giving up so much material.
Black players better know this line if they play the Traxler against me or they will be in trouble.
I will look this line up in my manuscript and get back to you. My opinion is that I do not think white is doing well from this position, but we will see nonetheless.
He means e4 d5.
2. c4 is white's best response.
Not that I do not believe you, however, I think a little more explanation would do wonders as to how/why 2. c4 is the best. I am not suggesting it is as I do not know what the best reponse is. I do know that when I play the Scandi, people tend to take and then play Nc3 after Qxd5...this is from my personal experience and doesn't mean that exd5 is the best...this is just what I find to be true with my games.
Personally, I hate playing against the Scandi, my own defense as I feel white is force to play either exd5 or d4 right away forcing a commitment from white...I choose d4 as my second move as white...I'm not sure this is the best though.
2. c4 is white's best response.
Not that I do not believe you, however, I think a little more explanation would do wonders as to how/why 2. c4 is the best. I am not suggesting it is as I do not know what the best reponse is. I do know that when I play the Scandi, people tend to take and then play Nc3 after Qxd5...this is from my personal experience and doesn't mean that exd5 is the best...this is just what I find to be true with my games.
Personally, I hate playing against the Scandi, my own defense as I feel white is force to play either exd5 or d4 right away forcing a commitment from white...I choose d4 as my second move as white...I'm not sure this is the best though.
I'm sure he was thinking after 1 d4 d5 since in the title it just says 1...d5.
Well, 6.Kf1 statistically is somewhat poor for white. My line that I play is
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 Bc5 5.Nxf7 Bxf2+ 6.Kxf2 Nxe4+ 7.Ke3!?
Extremely agressive and black has to prove he can justify giving up so much material.
Black players better know this line if they play the Traxler against me or they will be in trouble.
I will look this line up in my manuscript and get back to you. My opinion is that I do not think white is doing well from this position, but we will see nonetheless.
6.Ke3 is also statistically poor for White. In my DB, White only scores 25%.
marvellosity: but in a manuscript you get the "why", which is very useful.
I'm just overcompensating for the fact that I don't have a DB. Unless you count games explorer.
Well, 6.Kf1 statistically is somewhat poor for white. My line that I play is
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 Bc5 5.Nxf7 Bxf2+ 6.Kxf2 Nxe4+ 7.Ke3!?
Extremely agressive and black has to prove he can justify giving up so much material.
Black players better know this line if they play the Traxler against me or they will be in trouble.
I will look this line up in my manuscript and get back to you. My opinion is that I do not think white is doing well from this position, but we will see nonetheless.
My manuscript simply says that 7.Ke3? is an error, which is refuted by 7...Qh4!
They give some sample lines, which I will not post here.
Take it and just play normally. Thats the best advice :D
I started playing 1 e4 d5 2 d4 dxe4 3 f3?! exf3 4 Nxf3
I think if black continues with 3...exf3 that 4. Qxf3 is the best choice here; at least that is how I would play it. I would like to hear your opinion on this move as I usually play the black side of the Scandi and do not continue on to this line if I play white. I never play 1. e4 anymore so I never have to face the Scandi anymore.
Thanks, I appreciate the insight and good discussion on this matter.
Well black chooses to use the surprise weapon. White wouldn't typically spend time preparing for something that they're likely to never face. And if you do face it one time, you're not using your time well. It's best to learn exactly one line against all surprise openings that gives an ok position. It's embarrassing to get mated in 17 moves when your opponent is down a rook after move 7.
But it's entirely a waste of time to learn in depth the various trick openings, unless you plan to use them from the opposite side. Maybe the exception is the Cochrane, since if you play the Petrov you probably should learn it at least a little bit.