lol
And I agree that 1...d5 is one of the weaker reasonable responses to e4. Like one that a normal person would play.
What is the best response to 1...d5
Sort:
Jul 17, 2009
0
#83
Just goes to show that what you gain in simplicity you lose in theoretical correctness.
WanderingWinder wrote:
Hammerschlag wrote:
ouachita wrote:
SuiteLycee wrote:
If white plays 1. e4, and black plays d5
what's the best response? and any lines for white?
2. exd5 is by far white's best reply to 1...d5, and 2...Nf6 is black's best reply, eventhough black has not had a high rate of success with this move. 1...D5 is one of black's weakest replies to 1. E4.
So what would be your suggestion to someone that does not have enough time to memorize lines from the Sicilian Defense to play against e4?
I am not saying you are wrong about d5 being one of black's weakest replies to e4, however, can you give lines as to how the game might play out for maybe 10-moveswhich shows how black falls behind by more than +0.50? (Technically, white having the first move should earn him a +0.50 advantage). I guess I am asking where white can earn more of an advantage to black's response d5? Thanks.
Actually white having the first move doesn't and wouldn't give whtie a .50 pawn advantage... The general rough rule is that a tempo is worth about a third of a pawn, and all the studies I've doen with engine analysis seem to say that from the first move, white's advantage is even slightly less than this perhaps.
I also wouldn't say that 1...d5 is one of the weakest responses to 1.e4. Actually, as stated flatly that's almost absurd, but I think that he meatn to say that it's one of the weakest reasonable replies, being weaker than 1...e5 1...e6 1...c5 1...c6, etc. It's better than, say, 1...f5, 1..f6, 1...g5, etc. I actually don't even think it's necessarily all that weak, but objectively it isn't all that strong. As for other lines you want to look into, Ozzie would certainly suggest the CK, but if you're looking for something really simple, you might want to pick out a line of the French that you like, or look into the Pirc. If you want something REALLY simple though, I would advise the Scandanavian.
Ok, so what lines then would white play to get a better than +0.33 advantage vs the Scandi?
I only suggested +0.50 because the computer here only seem to give one side the advantage if s/he has managed to get up on their opponent over half a point.
I play(ed) the Scandi exclusively as a defense to e4 until recently. I have just recently studied the Sicilian (Dragon Variation) and am now trying it out so I am not very comfy with it yet; at least not as comfy as the Scandi. My problem with the Sicilian is that it has so many lines and you need to memorize all of them; I do not have the time to do that. I have had some good success with the Scandi, but that's not to say it is the best defense (I try to play people close to my level). Granted I have only beaten 3 people over 1600 rating (barely over) after ~30 games playing almost equal # of games in color.
I am also looking into the Caro-Kann, but (no offense to anyone that uses the CK) it is so boring. Games tend to go into the endgame all the time (pawns being pushed to promote ahead of the opponent) unless your opponent makes a mistake.
Hammerschlag wrote:
WanderingWinder wrote:
Hammerschlag wrote:
ouachita wrote:
SuiteLycee wrote:
If white plays 1. e4, and black plays d5
what's the best response? and any lines for white?
2. exd5 is by far white's best reply to 1...d5, and 2...Nf6 is black's best reply, eventhough black has not had a high rate of success with this move. 1...D5 is one of black's weakest replies to 1. E4.
So what would be your suggestion to someone that does not have enough time to memorize lines from the Sicilian Defense to play against e4?
I am not saying you are wrong about d5 being one of black's weakest replies to e4, however, can you give lines as to how the game might play out for maybe 10-moveswhich shows how black falls behind by more than +0.50? (Technically, white having the first move should earn him a +0.50 advantage). I guess I am asking where white can earn more of an advantage to black's response d5? Thanks.
Actually white having the first move doesn't and wouldn't give whtie a .50 pawn advantage... The general rough rule is that a tempo is worth about a third of a pawn, and all the studies I've doen with engine analysis seem to say that from the first move, white's advantage is even slightly less than this perhaps.
I also wouldn't say that 1...d5 is one of the weakest responses to 1.e4. Actually, as stated flatly that's almost absurd, but I think that he meatn to say that it's one of the weakest reasonable replies, being weaker than 1...e5 1...e6 1...c5 1...c6, etc. It's better than, say, 1...f5, 1..f6, 1...g5, etc. I actually don't even think it's necessarily all that weak, but objectively it isn't all that strong. As for other lines you want to look into, Ozzie would certainly suggest the CK, but if you're looking for something really simple, you might want to pick out a line of the French that you like, or look into the Pirc. If you want something REALLY simple though, I would advise the Scandanavian.
I am also looking into the Caro-Kann, but (no offense to anyone that uses the CK) it is so boring. Games tend to go into the endgame all the time (pawns being pushed to promote ahead of the opponent) unless your opponent makes a mistake.
Well the Caro Kann is definitley not for everybody. Are you an attacking player? Then it's not a good choice. But what line of 1...d5 is more active than 1...c6? What line of d5 do you play 6 moves deep or so? The caro kann is a positional opening for players content with a draw and you need to have a good understanding of strategy to do well with it. Black often has to be defensive and he doesn't get many tactics but he usually has something to look forward to in the long term (solid pawn structure and play against and iso for example). So don't pick it if you are expecting a big initiative! But really what line of the scandinavian do you play that is less boring than the ck? 2...Nf6? because I could show you how white gets the advantage, although it's nothing huge.
Jul 17, 2009
0
#86
Hammerschlag, you're probably a better person to answer it actually. As a player of the Scandinavian, what do you consider to be the most critical line? Also, if you played 1.e4, how would you play against the Scandinavian? And lastly, what line did you least like to face?
As a player of the "boring" Caro-Kann, I can answer these questions for this opening.
Most critical: Bd3 against 4... Nd7, or Advance Short, or Panov-Botvinnik attack.
I would play: I would definitely play the Panov-Botvinnik attack
Least like to face: Not quite sure... I'll have to think about it. One of the lines listed above in "most critical", probably.
Jul 17, 2009
0
#87
It would rank highest in boringness among the most popular defenses to 1.e4
e5, e6, c5, c6, d5, d6, Nf6, Nc6
Hmm, actually the Scandinavian might be more boring. But I don't play it.
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:
Hammerschlag, you're probably a better person to answer it actually. As a player of the Scandinavian, what do you consider to be the most critical line? Also, if you played 1.e4, how would you play against the Scandinavian? And lastly, what line did you least like to face?
As a player of the "boring" Caro-Kann, I can answer these questions for this opening.
Most critical: Bd3 against 4... Nd7, or Advance Short, or Panov-Botvinnik attack.
I would play: I would definitely play the Panov-Botvinnik attack
Least like to face: Not quite sure... I'll have to think about it. One of the lines listed above in "most critical", probably.
I wouldn't say I am a better person to answer the question just because I play the Scandi as black. I am ~1500 level player and I don't know a whole lot of things about chess. As far as critical lines, I can only speak for the black side at best and I don't know if the lines I can give you are critical...more based on what I would prefer to play; continue the game as black. d5, then if exd5, I prefer Qxd5 line. (I do not like the delay of Nf6 as it allows white to pick what direction the game will go IMHO; this is not to say Qxd5 is better, I just prefer it); after Nc3, which I don't mind at all, Qa5...then I will eventually play c6 when I feel it necessary to keep the N(c3) from advancing and to allow the Queen a backdoor, if necessary.
If (and that's a big "IF") I were to play e4, then I do not want to see d5 as a response. That "is" what I like to see the least as I do not like playing against the Scandi as white; I would much rather see e5 if I were to play e4.
To Elubas:
I do consider myself an attacking player, at least I that's what I believe. I do tend to become defensive as black as I feel I am behind from the beginning, which is why I like the fight (from the first move) of d5 the Scandi allows me.
BTW, I have nothing against the Caro-Kann. It was actually the first defense as black I looked into; I know it's a solid defense with virtually no weakness, if any. It's a great defense if my opinion. I have even played 2. c6 in the past if my opponent declines exd5 (which transposes to the CK). I just find that a lot of games are closed and as an attacking player, that does not go well for me. My strategy is terrible too and this might contribute to not liking the CK much; I know this is a weakness in my game. Just being honest.
ouachita wrote:
exd5
Perhaps you forgot, but you have already posted on this thread... several times... 
ouachita wrote:
Sure, but there's a million books on it:
1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3:
3...Qe6
3...Qd8
3...Qa5
3...Qd6
3...Qg5
Black's success rate is not good with any of these, but GM Becerra drew easily against me with Qa5 as I recall.
That game:
Qa5 is my favor line in the Scandinavian. I don't know about anyone else, but I think a draw as black can be considered a good result. Especially if you are playing against someone higher ranked than you are. So if I draw with the Scandinavian D, then I consider it a successful defense and I will try for the win again (as I do try when I play black using the Scandinavian D) when I get white.
The Scandinavian D might not be the greatest defense as black. However, if you have no time for memorizing lines or are terrible at it, then the Scandinavian D is a good choice/alternative to other defenses IMHO.
So, I guess to answer the question originally posted...if you are going to play e4 as your opening, just be sure to have an idea on how you are going to respond to every defense black has an option of using against it, including the Scandinavian. My suggestion, if you don't know how to defend against it (or know the possible traps) is to actually decline it as you are playing into black's game if you accept; both accepting declining are acceptable options, just depending on your style (and knowledge of the defense). What should white play if declining the Scandinavian? might be a good question to ask. I can't really say because I don't play e4, but I think it would be safe to say not 2. f3 (maybe 2.d4). Does anyone have any thoughts on this idea --- "if" white is to decline 2. exd5, then what should be white's second move?
2 exd5 is by far the best move no matter what. 2 e5?! just makes black's game very easy after 2...c5 with a very favorable french type position. 2 exd5 is not particularly difficult to play. usually that advice makes sense but it is specifically for sharp openings like the sicilian where sometimes one misstep can destroy your position for either color.
As a scandinavian savant (not really lol), i think the best way for white to play is the classical line with e4 d5 exd5 Qxd5 Nc3, however at lower levels the Advance Variation with e4 d5 e5 also seems quite successful as it can catch black off guard. Whatever suits your playing style ig 
Jan 13, 2025
0
#94
In general I'd recommend Scandi players go with Nf6 over Qxd5. I don't find Qxe5 testing in any variation. When I see Qa5 on the board I actually get happy... I have a line prepared here, this is both predictable and objectively bad. And Qd8 - it's too passive, you can and should do more in the opening. Qd6 - probably the best of the 3, but white still plays this very similar to the other lines, Nf6 is alot more complex / interesting. Here in some cases you can even transpose into certain Qa5 lines later, but after white has committed to a specific setup, this is much better since it evades any special Qa5 prep white may have.
For the OP - against 1. d4 play something that brings the fight early. And avoid highly theoretical positional lines like the semi-slav, grunfeld, KID. You don't get the chance to punish the opponent there until way later, you're going to be slogging through mounds of theory and banging heads with people who do the same. Go with the slav, QGA, tarrasch, benko, english defense, triangle systems, vienna... even albin or buddapest depending on your elo or your style. etc.. If you really want something theoretical the nimzo is good but it's gonna require a ton of theory. I'd probably pair it with the vienna if I was going to go this route just to minimize the rest of the theory needed. Though the Kangaroo or bogo are reasonable options too.
Totally agreed. It may be one of the weakest "reasonable" defenses. I think the absolute worse defense would have to be 1.e4 f5, and I would personally put second-worst to be 1.e4 b5.
If I took up the Scandinavian, I'll face a Blackmar Diemer gambit player at some point. So here is what the game will look like!
1.e4 d5
2.d4! c6!