I was playing a daily game and I found this very long opening line that I was curious about after the game finished, but I'm too broke to get the opening explorer. I also couldn't find this line of the fried liver anywhere. I'm wondering how long this 9.Qe4 line actually goes. May someone please check for me? Thank you!
What is this opening???
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theCodeNick
Jan 26, 2021
0
#1
Jan 26, 2021
0
#2
It is the Two Knights Defense, but Black's 5th move is terrible!
5...Na5! Gives Black FULL EQUALITY.
4.d4 is far stronger than 4.Ng5.
Jan 26, 2021
0
#3
ThrillerFan wrote:
It is the Two Knights Defense, but Black's 5th move is terrible!
5...Na5! Gives Black FULL EQUALITY.
4.d4 is far stronger than 4.Ng5.
i have never seriously analyzed the fried liver but the more i see it, the more im convinced its not so bad.
and multiple engines at depth 50 give 0.00 equality after some complications. All this trouble for a quicker equality. White has violated two opening principles, and black has already given a pawn, for somewhat elusive compensation.
if i ever coached scholastic players, i would tell them to forego the two knights defense altogether and play bc5 instead to save yourself the headache. actually i dont see the appeal to double king pawn openings for black at all, but that's another story altogether.
Jan 26, 2021
0
#4
darkunorthodox88 wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:
It is the Two Knights Defense, but Black's 5th move is terrible!
5...Na5! Gives Black FULL EQUALITY.
4.d4 is far stronger than 4.Ng5.
i have never seriously analyzed the fried liver but the more i see it, the more im convinced its not so bad.
and multiple engines at depth 50 give 0.00 equality after some complications. All this trouble for a quicker equality. White has violated two opening principles, and black has already given a pawn, for somewhat elusive compensation.
if i ever coached scholastic players, i would tell them to forego the two knights defense altogether and play bc5 instead to save yourself the headache. actually i dont see the appeal to double king pawn openings for black at all, but that's another story altogether.
I am getting the impression, based on what you said, that you do not even know what the Fried Liver Attack is.
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 is NOT the Fried Liver Attack, it is merely a variation of the Two Knights Defense, and NOT a good one.
After 4...d5! 5.exd5 Na5!, Black as already achieved full equality, and rejecting allowing the Fried Liver Attack. 5...Na5! 6.Bb5+ c6 7.dxc6 bxc6 8.Qf3 is merely a dead equal variation of the Two Knights Defense.
The Fried Liver Attack is specifically the line 5...Nxd5? 6.Nxf7! Black should NEVER allow it! 5...Na5, rejecting White the ability to play the Fried Liver Attack, is specifically why 4.Ng5 is not very good in the first place!
Jan 26, 2021
0
#6
ThrillerFan wrote:
darkunorthodox88 wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:
It is the Two Knights Defense, but Black's 5th move is terrible!
5...Na5! Gives Black FULL EQUALITY.
4.d4 is far stronger than 4.Ng5.
i have never seriously analyzed the fried liver but the more i see it, the more im convinced its not so bad.
and multiple engines at depth 50 give 0.00 equality after some complications. All this trouble for a quicker equality. White has violated two opening principles, and black has already given a pawn, for somewhat elusive compensation.
if i ever coached scholastic players, i would tell them to forego the two knights defense altogether and play bc5 instead to save yourself the headache. actually i dont see the appeal to double king pawn openings for black at all, but that's another story altogether.
I am getting the impression, based on what you said, that you do not even know what the Fried Liver Attack is.
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 is NOT the Fried Liver Attack, it is merely a variation of the Two Knights Defense, and NOT a good one.
After 4...d5! 5.exd5 Na5!, Black as already achieved full equality, and rejecting allowing the Fried Liver Attack. 5...Na5! 6.Bb5+ c6 7.dxc6 bxc6 8.Qf3 is merely a dead equal variation of the Two Knights Defense.
The Fried Liver Attack is specifically the line 5...Nxd5? 6.Nxf7! Black should NEVER allow it! 5...Na5, rejecting White the ability to play the Fried Liver Attack, is specifically why 4.Ng5 is not very good in the first place!
who cares what its called?
you cant just claim na5! full equality and go home. It is not at all obvious exactly how it is equal. But that's not even the issue here since im assuming multiple engines at very high depths calling it dead even settle that.
the issue is that these lines are not clean at all. Black doesnt have a trivial equality. after qf3, the two main suggestions are be7 and h6.
-Be7 sacs a second pawn after bxc6 nxc6 qxc6+ bd7 qf3. and its still just equality. Two pawns for equality is not the common idea of a trivial equality.
-h6 also sacs more material after ne4 cxb5 (nd4 gives white an advantage) nxf6 gxf6 Qxa8. It is also equal but looks just as not clean.
I cannot look at a scholastic player dead in the face and tell him to play for these very tricky imbalances and promise him after all the dust is settled...and you will be equal lmao. Just play 3.bc5 and play chess.