What is your opinion on the Benoni defense?

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Avatar of darkunorthodox88

i believe benoni translates from hebrew meaning "that boy aint right"
if bobby hill played chess, hank would insist on a good ol fashioned ruy lopez for black and a queen's gambit declined, maybe a cambridge springs if he feeling bold. Then of course, bobby would dedicated himself to the benoni defense just because. Hit straight bobby!
THAT BOY AINT RIGHT!
oh and Benko gambit is straight BWAH! territory. 

Avatar of crazedrat1000

People who advocate for playing the benoni usually argue that they want whole board complexity with tactical opportunities without having to memorize concrete lines, where they can play conceptually... by comprison the QGD is drawish, the slav is more solid and it requires too much theory, and the KID... the KID is probably the closest alternative but it often leads to closed structures, and it isn't as conceptual you need to know the precise moves or you're just suffocated and screwed. Grunfeld lines there are very concrete and theoretical. In the benoni you play it conceptually for a win, which is what its proponents would argue.

I wouldn't argue that because, while you do avoid theory, I think you just give white a fantastic position that doesn't require theory from him either. I think for all those benefits you're just better off playing the benko. It takes a while to get the board to open up in the benoni, you have to be very patient. With the benko you have good initiative fairly early on and it lasts throughout the entire midgame.

The dutch could be an alternative, but it's unstable in a way that often comes back to bite black, it also requires alot more precision early on from black. Between the dutch and the benoni I probably would choose the benoni.

If I did have to play a benoni I would play the old benoni w/ an early g6, there are some interesting lines here and they're not often seen -

Avatar of darkunorthodox88
crazedrat1000 wrote:

People who advocate for playing the benoni usually argue that they want whole board complexity with tactical opportunities without having to memorize concrete lines, where they can play conceptually... by comprison the QGD is drawish, the slav is more solid and it requires too much theory, and the KID... the KID is probably the closest alternative but it often leads to closed structures, and it isn't as conceptual you need to know the precise moves or you're just suffocated and screwed. Grunfeld lines there are very concrete and theoretical. In the benoni you play it conceptually for a win, which is what its proponents would argue.

I wouldn't argue that because, while you do avoid theory, I think you just give white a fantastic position that doesn't require theory from him either. I think for all those benefits you're just better off playing the benko. It takes a while to get the board to open up in the benoni, you have to be very patient. With the benko you have good initiative fairly early on and it lasts throughout the entire midgame.

The dutch could be an alternative, but it's unstable in a way that often comes back to bite black, it also requires alot more precision early on from black. Between the dutch and the benoni I probably would choose the benoni.

If I did have to play a benoni I would play the old benoni w/ an early g6, there are some interesting lines here and they're not often seen -

BEEFEATER!

Avatar of blueemu
darkunorthodox88 wrote:

i believe benoni translates from hebrew meaning "that boy aint right"

The phrase can also be translated as "Son of Sadness" or even as "the product of my distress".

Avatar of piratebt99chess

Bro the benoni is absolute trash. It just gets absolutely refuted by

Avatar of pfren
RIPnaro wrote:

Bro the benoni is absolute trash. It just gets absolutely refuted by

Aye, has 9...b5 been refuted? When did it happen?

Please show us...

Avatar of CeracioHuy61

Good,

R.I.P. Danya

Avatar of piratebt99chess
 pfren wrote:
RIPnaro wrote:

Bro the benoni is absolute trash. It just gets absolutely refuted by

Aye, has 9...b5 been refuted? When did it happen?

Please show us...

Avatar of piratebt99chess

it is refuted

Avatar of blueemu
RIPnaro wrote:

it is refuted

What the IM means is: Don't tell us, show us.

Avatar of piratebt99chess
blueemu wrote:
RIPnaro wrote:

it is refuted

What the IM means is: Don't tell us, show us.

bruh, look at my above post.

Avatar of blueemu

Isn't 12. ... a6 just about equal?

Avatar of ChessEnthusiast48
Does anyone know of any recent game from the position referred to by RIPnaro that refuted the line? From what I see there’s much play left in the given line for both side and I only see that white is slightly better. And if there’s a recent game that show white winning from the given position, it could be the result of mistake on black’s part. That game should be subjected to further analysis if indeed it resulted in the line refutation.
Avatar of pfren
RIPnaro wrote:

it is refuted

Ignorance is bliss.

As @blueemu said at #32, Black's most common move by a huge margin is 12...a6 which forces the b5 knight to go to a less active square (a3) before retreating the Ne4. Or of course the b5 knight may also go to c3, and be exchanged.

The other two possible tries (13.Rxe4, 13.Qa4) fail to impress.

This has been played 500+ times, and the results verify the computer's evaluation (a measly +0.15).

The modern, "computer approved" try for some advantage is 12.Bxe4!? (in place of 12.Re1), but this does not bring much to boast about. Most recent example is this one. 15...c4? is a mistake- both players missed 16.Qd1! which is better for white (16...Rxb5 17.Re7), but 15...Ba6! 16.a4 Bxb5 17.axb5 Qc8! followed by ...Nd7 is just equal.

Avatar of ChessEnthusiast48
Thank you IM pfren for posting this recent Benoni game. Nice analysis of the game.
Avatar of pfren
ChessEnthusiast48 wrote:
Thank you IM pfren for posting this recent Benoni game. Nice analysis of the game.

It's just a comment. I would not call such a brief comment "analysis'. And the improvement suggestion comes directly from a recent course by GM Jobava and IM Ceres.

Avatar of piratebt99chess
pfren wrote:
RIPnaro wrote:

it is refuted

Ignorance is bliss.

As @blueemu said at #32, Black's most common move by a huge margin is 12...a6 which forces the b5 knight to go to a less active square (a3) before retreating the Ne4. Or of course the b5 knight may also go to c3, and be exchanged.

The other two possible tries (13.Rxe4, 13.Qa4) fail to impress.

This has been played 500+ times, and the results verify the computer's evaluation (a measly +0.15).

The modern, "computer approved" try for some advantage is 12.Bxe4!? (in place of 12.Re1), but this does not bring much to boast about. Most recent example is this one. 15...c4? is a mistake- both players missed 16.Qd1! which is better for white (16...Rxb5 17.Re7), but 15...Ba6! 16.a4 Bxb5 17.axb5 Qc8! followed by ...Nd7 is just equal.

Im not talking about the computer evals or whatever. I'm talking about practicality. The positions are sooooo much easier to play from the white side that it's almost insane. Also regarding ChessEnthusiast48 saying that in the diagram I provided that white is only "slightly better" I would have to disagree. Anyone looking at that position can agree white is much better.

Avatar of piratebt99chess

The people arguing against me have only played daily chess for a while so I think that I have more to say about practical chess.

Avatar of piratebt99chess

no offense btw

Avatar of piratebt99chess

daily chess is fun