what should i play vs the sicilian (now a discussion of whites side of the sicilian)

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SamuelAjedrez95
Ilampozhil25 wrote:

yeah the positions seem unexplored in the adams attack

very little master games and almost no practical games (rapid, around my rating, using players database)

still they look like it could be a decent idea

There are a lot of unorthodox Najdorf lines like this where they just haven't been played all that much. The f4 Amsterdam variation is also a really cool line which produces super unique positions unlike anything else in the Najdorf.

Some example lines. This is actually another really cool variation which isn't so popular or well-known.

Even within some variations like the Bg5 Main Line (my personal favourite) there is a lot of unexplored territory.

Ilampozhil25

Qe1? what is white even doing

and Kh1 is for a g file attack right?

yeah but i feel the adams attack makes more sense with everything else

wow there are many ways for white to play vs the najdorf

and... not much theory to even speak of, just some ideas

SamuelAjedrez95
Ilampozhil25 wrote:

and: the fact that black plays a6, a seemingly random pawn push and its the best move; is funny

so the fact that white can respond with h3, another seemingly random move; is hilarious

Yeah, it's funny. Black plays a pawn 1 move forward on one side of the board and white responds with a pawn 1 move forward on the opposite side. Haha.

SamuelAjedrez95
Ilampozhil25 wrote:

Qe1? what is white even doing

and Kh1 is for a g file attack right?

yeah but i feel the adams attack makes more sense with everything else

wow there are many ways for white to play vs the najdorf

and... not much theory to even speak of, just some ideas

Qe1 supports the e pawn and prepares e5 but has the added idea that white can play Qh4. This plan is very familiar to the Grand Prix Attack.

Kh1 in that line avoids Qb6+. For example, 11. Bxf4 Qb6+ 12. Kh1 Qxb2.

TheSampson

I highly recommend the Grand Prix Attack.

Sicilian players are always expecting an Open Sicilian or a regular Closed Sicilian. I bet half of beginner-intermediate Sicilian players don't even know what the Grand Prix Attack is.

Just for context, the Grand Prix was made as a swift, efficient Sicilian killer without much opening preparation.

TheSampson
TheSampson wrote:

I highly recommend the Grand Prix Attack.

Sicilian players are always expecting an Open Sicilian or a regular Closed Sicilian. I bet half of beginner-intermediate Sicilian players don't even know what the Grand Prix Attack is.

Just for context, the Grand Prix was made as a swift, efficient Sicilian killer without much opening preparation.

If black continues with natural developing moves, they're gonna get overwhelmed. Just look at this bullet game played by Magnus Carlsen (as shown in GothamChess's Grand Prix Attack video)

Mind that this was a bullet game, but his opponent crumbled under the pressure.

pleewo

I was with you until you said GothamChess’s Grand Prix video.

in any case Grand Prix is a good opening

SamuelAjedrez95

Everyone knows what the Grand Prix Attack is. It isn't that good.

The checkmating plan is only going to work against very low rated players. If it doesn't work then white just has a worse position. It's kind of like a Scholar's Mate against the Sicilian, a bit more advanced but still. It can be countered very easily with normal Dragon setups.

SamuelAjedrez95
TheSampson wrote:

Just look at this bullet game played by Magnus Carlsen (as shown in GothamChess's Grand Prix Attack video)

  1. It's a bullet game.
  2. Played by Magnus Carlsen.
  3. Gothamchess 🤢
pleewo
SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:

Everyone knows what the Grand Prix Attack is. It isn't that good.

The checkmating plan is only going to work against very low rated players. If it doesn't work then white just has a worse position. It's kind of like a Scholar's Mate against the Sicilian, a bit more advanced but still. It can be countered very easily with normal Dragon setups.

The Grand Prix isn’t just some one trick pony thing that only works on lower rated players. It’s a good and definitely respectable opening. I might even add it to my repertoire with the 2.Be2 Grand Prix suggested by Simon Williams and Richard Palliser

SamuelAjedrez95

It kind of is a one tricky pony. Sure it's still a game of chess even when the cheap mating attack doesn't work but there's nothing else special about it.

Like with other Closed Sicilian lines, black gets very good control over the dark squares as white has abandoned d4.

2. Be2 looks so wrong to me. I never saw this move before and someone played it against me and I still beat them. Sometimes the surprise factor isn't enough to compensate for bad, passive moves.

pleewo

It isn’t a bad move at all in my opinion, just because you won the game doesn’t mean it’s a bad opening. The idea is to play a Grand Prix but with the bishop on e2. 
https://www.chessable.com/the-british-grand-prix-attack/course/91081/

It was recommended in this course by Simon Williams and Richard Palliser. And white hasn’t abandoned d4 at all in this opening, white hasn’t committed to nc3 and will actually play c3 often here. It’s an opening that is probably going to make its way into my repertoire sooner or later

Poweranony

I recommend playing the morphy gambit (1. e4 c5 2. d4 cxd4 3. nf3). If they want to hang on to the pawn with e5, you play c3 and you will get an improved version of the smith morra gambit were black can't block the bishop on c4 with a pawn on e6. 
If 3. nc6 is played you will get an open sicilian

pleewo

Very interesting actually, I might look into dis

mrOpenRuy

the grand prix gives black a easy game, they have tons of options at their disposal that are all good

they can go for a a6-b5-c4 type of play

then can go for a e6-d5 play to open the game

if black opens the center black will just allways be better and have a easy game

sometime Nd4 is an option for black as well

mrOpenRuy

in closed siclian black just adapts a setup based opening like this

mrOpenRuy

black gets an easy game and great counterplay on the queenside and center

SamuelAjedrez95
FrogboyWarpz wrote:

It isn’t a bad move at all in my opinion, just because you won the game doesn’t mean it’s a bad opening. The idea is to play a Grand Prix but with the bishop on e2. 
https://www.chessable.com/the-british-grand-prix-attack/course/91081/

It was recommended in this course by Simon Williams and Richard Palliser. And white hasn’t abandoned d4 at all in this opening, white hasn’t committed to nc3 and will actually play c3 often here. It’s an opening that is probably going to make its way into my repertoire sooner or later

Of course, just because someone won the game doesn't mean the opening is bad. However, a common theme of that game was that white was really struggling for space and the e2 bishop was really clogging up white's pieces.

Basically the exact setup you describe was played actually.

And it was something like this structure.

SamuelAjedrez95

Even so, the engine just likes 2. ...d5. I did consider this in the game but I thought it would still be something like a Scandi down a tempo. Turns out the bishop on e2 completely justifies it.

So it basically prevents f4.

SamuelAjedrez95
mrOpenRuy wrote:

black gets an easy game and great counterplay on the queenside and center

Exactly. This kind of thing can be incredibly painful for white.

There are a million ways for black to squeeze white to death in the Closed Sicilian.