What to do if my opponent does not know the lines?

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Compadre_J
ThrillerFan wrote:
Compadre_J wrote:

I disagree with Thriller Fan.

I think Chess requires both a mixture of memorization & understanding.

When I was intermediate player, I use to play the Sicilian Dragon.

When I became advanced player, I switch over to the Nadjorf.

Bc4 is main move in the Nadjorf.

So it’s not bad move - usually played on move 6

If you understand the opening, there is no need to memorize. The moves will come naturally. Far more important is to know WHY each move is played. Let's go with the opposite extreme in my case - the Grunfeld.

I could tell you the Seville Variation is 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.e4 Nxc3 6.bxc3 Bg7 7.Bc4 c5 8.Ne2 O-O 9.Be3 Nc6 10.O-O Bg4 11.f3 Na5 12 Bxf7+ Rxf7 13.fxg4. Great, I can regurgitate a line. That is useless! What if Black alters any move, what should White do? No clue! What should white figure after these 13 moves? No idea! The Grunfeld makes no sense to me. Couldn't tell you what to do from either side. Just because I have 13 moves of a line memorized from the past means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! Memorization is utterly useless if you don't understand the position. There is a reason you see my handle answering questions all the time in French threads, but you rarely find me in Grunfeld threads!

Memorization & Chess Understanding work hand in hand.

I have seen Beginners Memorize Chess Engine moves and have no understanding of a position and get completely throw off their game by a small deviation.

I have seen Grandmasters with some of the Best Chess Understanding in the world stare at chess board for over 1 hour because they forgot the move they was supposed to play.

Than they end up playing a move that is wrong because the move they are required to play in the position wasn’t a natural move. They even say after the game in interviews they forgot the move they was supposed to play.

Forgetting your moves is a by product of failing to Memorize.

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As far as I am concerned to be a great chess player, a person needs to memorize & understand as much as they humanly can.

They need to do both!

Compadre_J

Based on the OP diagram, it looks like he plays the Sicilian Dragon.

Yeah, the early Bc4 lines can be very troublesome against the Dragon.

Its actually very bad situation because it can mess up his ability to even get into the Dragon.

Here is sample line:

Sometimes, white can play a quick e5.

Than end up with Knight on e5 attacking f7 vs. on g5 attacking f7.

If black plays the move e6 which they most likely would have to do in the above position, it isn’t the most ideal set up for Dragon.

Another example:

White line is bad because it is weaker version of Grand Prix Attack.

Black does equalize fairly quickly in the above line, but it really butchers the Sicilian Dragon normal set up. I can see why the OP would be annoyed.

I remember facing lines like the above was I was Intermediate player.

I don’t know if the OP will like my answer on how to deal with Early Bc4 lines.

The way I did it was to actually not play Sicilian Dragon.

I played the Sicilian Khan variation.

‘It’s the e6 + a6 line.

I played Dragon against everything else, but vs. Early Bc4 lines. The only solution I came up with was Kan. It was highly effective though.

ThrillerFan
tygxc wrote:

@15

"The Grunfeld makes no sense to me. Couldn't tell you what to do from either side."
++ The strategic aim of the Grünfeld Indian Defense is to win the endgame based on the queen's side pawn majority a7-b7 vs. a2, i.e. an outside passed pawn.
For white the aim is to attack the black king based on the strong center d4-e4,
the absense of Nf6 to defend the king and the weakening by the move g6.

That's only in thr Exchange Variation. You also have the Russian Variation (4.Nf3), 4.e3, 4.Bg5, etc. And not all Grunfeld wins for Black are in the endgame. First Black must chip at the center.

When I say it makes no sense, I am not talking 10,000 foot level. Anybody can tell you 10,000 fot level analysis.

There are 5 types of pawn center:

Closed - Multiple files locked - common in the Advanced French and Classical King's Indian

Mobile - One side, usually White, has a central pawn mass that is not blocked, other side tries to prove over-extension while the side with the pawns wants to roll you over - Alekhine and Grunfeld most common.

Static - a single file is blocked with available pawn breaks - Orthodox QGD, for example.

Open - at least 1 fully open file - Petroff, exchange French, etc.

Dynamic - Anything else - typically amorphous pawn structures - Najdorf, Benoni, etc.

This was all in month 2 of a 13 month online course from about 10 years ago on a site I believe was chessmasterschool.com.

I cannot assess positions correctly in positions dealing with the mobile pawn center. Like in the Grunfeld Exchange, White often gets a passed d-pawn on d5 or d6. If I have White, that pawn is weak and drops - not immediately, but in like, 20 more moves. If I have Black, that pawn is a monster and wins the game for White.

Based on that, in case you cannot tell, I hate the Alekhine too. I can deal with the other four types of center fine. It's just the mobile center that I hate, regardless of which side of it I am on.

ThrillerFan
Compadre_J wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:
Compadre_J wrote:

I disagree with Thriller Fan.

I think Chess requires both a mixture of memorization & understanding.

When I was intermediate player, I use to play the Sicilian Dragon.

When I became advanced player, I switch over to the Nadjorf.

Bc4 is main move in the Nadjorf.

So it’s not bad move - usually played on move 6

And not to mention, 6.Bc4 isn't even the main line of the Najdorf. The old main line used to be 6.Bg5, but that got taken over by 6.Be3. 6.Bc4 is a line, but not the main line.

I never said 6. Bc4 is the main line.

I just said it is a main move along with like 10 other main moves.

Yeah, 6.Bg5 has been regarded as main line for long time.

Yeah, it is probably fair to say 6.Be3 has taken it over as new modern main line.

Sometimes, they will use 6.f3 move order to get into English Attack to avoid the Ng4 lines.

It’s all same thing.

6.f3 has its pros and cons. It prevents 6...Ng4, but allows 6...Qb6.

It's a "pick your poison" scenario.

It's like in the Classical or Stonewall Dutch. Pick your poison. Allow the gambits and sidelines (1...f5 and then 2.Nc3, 2.Bg5, 2.e4, or 2.g4), or allow the French (1...e6 intending 2...f5, avoiding the gambits and sidelines as 2.Nc3 you can play 2...d5 or 2...Bb4, leading to the Jobava or Winawer French, 2.Bg5 drops a piece, 2.e4 is now a French after 2...d5, and 2.g4 is just ridiculous.)

For me, that is an easy decision, since I play the French against 1.e4 anyway.

Compadre_J

@Post #12

The line your showing is unavailable.

The line white is playing is Yugoslav Attack and it is the main line against Sicilian Dragon.

I consider the Sicilian Dragon an Intermediate Opening because a lot of Intermediate players will not know how to Yugoslav Attack or they will play different lines.

When you reach Advanced level, The only line you will see players play vs. you is Yugoslav Attack. A lot of players get sick of seeing it and begin changing lines.

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The key moves to remember in Yugoslav Attack are moves 7, 9, 11, 13, and 15 if I remember right.

Compadre_J

In the above position, the move 7.f3 is key move for white to prevent Ng4.

blueemu

If you don't know what to do when your opponent doesn't follow the book lines, then that means that you don't actually know those openings... you've just memorized a few lines.

Compadre_J

Lets show what happens if White messes up and doesn’t play 7.f3.

In the above position, White has rushed into setting up their Queen + Bishop battery.

Do you see the fatal flaw they have done in their rush?

They have not guarded the g4 square.

The White Queen on d1 defends the g4 square, but now that it has moved to d2.

No, pieces or pawns are guarding g4.

Black has crushing move!

The crushing move Ng4 - Black is trying to force a trade

Black wants to ruin white Bishop Battery.

Black would love to trade the Knight on f6 for White Dark Bishop!

Why? Because if the trade happens the Sicilian Dark Dragon Bishop reigns Supreme!

OH, YEAH! This is a serious threat. 

White has messed up!

The Key Move for White is 7.f3 - Why?

Do you see why? White wants to play the Queen to d2 to set up battery, but they need to guard the g4 square so Knight doesn’t hop in and ruin the plan.

This is why the move 7.f3 is key main move.

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Move 9 - The next Key move in the position

Black has developed their entire army.

In the above position, Black has a devastating threat!

Black is threatening to play the move d5.

Why?
In the Sicilian Dragon, Black position is slightly more cramped because they don’t have a pawn on the 5th rank. Look at the Dragon pawn structure!

Most of the pawns are on Black 2nd & 3rd row.

They don’t have any pawns on 4th row or 5th rank.

This means the Dragon is caged!

The Dragon is in chains because of the pawn structure!

Guess What? The Dragon wants to break free from its chains!

The Dragon wants to fly and unleash terror on White position.

The d5 pawn push threatens to put pawn on white 5th rank.

The Dragon is trying to liberate itself and break free!

Should White allow the Dragon to be free?

NO! It would be horrible decision.

White wants the dragon in chains!

Its better for White if Dragon is caged up.

So in this position the key move at move 9 is Bc4

Why is 9.Bc4 the main move?

What does it do?

The Bishop on c4 adds another defender to the d5 square!

It is trying to keep the Dragon caged!

Do you see it?

Its amazing because it makes total sense!

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Now ask yourself the question: What should Black do in response to this?

Should the Dragon give up?

NO! - Guess what the Dragon players do in this position?

They noticed something!

Did you notice it?

The Bishop on c4 is attacking the d5 square, but it is also an undefended piece!

What is defending the Bishop? It is just a hanging piece floating on the board.

The Dragon players came up with sneaky idea!

When hanging pieces are in the position, Tactical shots are in the air.

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Move 11 - Key Move - Lets go!

The Dragon players put Bishop on d7.

Here it comes the Sneaky “Rc8”

What is the Rook on c8 doing?

The powerful Discovered Attack is coming!

Do you see it?

blueemu

As long as the Queen was on d1, Black couldn't play Ng5 because of Bb5+.

There is a similar theme in the Levenfish Dragon.

Compadre_J

Lets show what happens if white does a random King move on move 11.

The Bishop on c4 falls?

Now you might wonder what happens if the Queen takes on d4 instead of Dark Bishop?

THE DRAGON IS ALIVE!

- Ng4 attacks the Bishop on e3

- Dragon Bishop on g7 attacks Queen on d4

- Rook attacks Bishop on c4

This is what can happen if you mess with the Dragon - You get eaten alive over here.

You can tell on move 11 White shouldn’t be doing King move.

The Bishop on c4 is undefended and Dragon players sneaky plan is in play.

White needs to do something with Bishop.

The Key move in this position is 11.Bb3

This is the Key move, but what if our opponent doesn’t know.

What if they play a different Bishop move?

What is wrong with Bd3?

The Bishop on d3 is out of danger from Rook on c8.

Its safe - It’s on center square protecting the e4 pawn.

It looks like great move, but it’s not!

Its a horrible move, but why?

On move 9, White played the Bishop to c4 for a reason.

The Dragon was trying to break free with a d5 pawn push.

The move Bishop to c4 was designed to protect d5 square to prevent Dragon from breaking free. This was the original function of the Bishop.

Black idea to attack bishop on c4 was a counter response.

The Key move 11.Bb3 is the best move because it defends the bishop and keeps the bishop hitting the d5 square to prevent Black from breaking free.

The Bad move 11.Bd3 defends the Bishop, but it doesn’t maintain the Bishop ability to defend the d5 square. The result is Black is able to play d5!

THE DRAGON IS FREE!

LONG LIVE THE DRAGON

The sneaky Rook slide to c8 to set up tactical shot on Bishop…

WORKED LIKE A CHARM!

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We are 11 moves into Chess Theory

We have just memorized 11 moves in Dragon

We understand why these 11 moves are happening in Dragon.

It seems pretty straightforward to me.

What about you?

Each move has an idea and both players are going back and forward trying to stop the other players idea. They don’t want their opponent idea to happen because it could cause them to start losing.

Should we keep going?