So do I, but that’s definitely jumping in on the deep end.
whats the most interesting variation of the sicilian?
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May 16, 2020
0
#23
Kan? Kalashnikov? Majority of Sicilian lines are dynamic and interesting. But Yugoslav or English attack games with opposite castling are exciting.
May 16, 2020
0
#24
tlay80 wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:
tlay80 wrote:
Or, more precisely, my database shows 643,294 games with 1. e4 c5, and only 3381 of those, or 1/2 of 1% result in the Prins (1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd5 Nf6 5. f3 (5 Nc3 is 50 times more common)).
That's at the master level of course, but I haven't found it to be any more frequent at the club level.
That is an inaccurate count because with just 1.e4 c5, you are factoring in 2...Nc6 Sicilians and 2...e6 Sicilians where 5.f3 is garbage.
It would be better to take the position after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 and then compare.
Out of almost 156,000 games on 365chess.com, 3346 feature 5.f3, or just over 2 percent.
So of all games where you face the Open Sicilian with 2...d6, 1 game of every 50 you can expect 5.f3.
Right. I noted that too (it's in parantheses). But one game out of fifty is still way too infrequent to have this be what makes or breaks an opening for you. Plus, in my experience, it's not even that common at the club level (though I'd think it would actually be a smart practical choice and am surprised I don't see it more).
I don't know - one in 50 to me could be enough if it is a real problem. The Prins should not be a problem, but you need to know it.
I am almost on the verge of giving up the King's Indian Defense because of 1 line. If not for this ONE LINE - The King's Indian Defense is a long time favorite of mine, but if I can't get an answer to the one problem, I have to chuck it.
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 O-O 6.Be2 e5 7.O-O Nc6 8.d5 Ne7 9.Ne1 Nd7 10.Be3 f5 11.f3 f4 12.Bf2 g5 and now one specific move that is a major problem for Black.
13.Rc1!!
The sacrifice with 14.c5 is a problem, and so is preparing it with 14.Nd3 or 14.b4.
13...Ng6 has been proven to be a big advantage for White.
I have yet to get 13...a6 to work
That leaves the popular 13...Rf6, but after 14.b4 Rh6 15.c5 Qe8 16.Nb5! Qh5 17.h4 Ng6 (I haven't gotten 17...gxh4 to work either) 18.g4!, it seems to be advantage White. I have an ongoing correspondence game where I'm trying out an unexplored idea at moves 20 and 21, and if it doesn't work, I might have to chuck the King's Indian because of one line, even if I only face it once every 50 times!
ThrillerFan έγραψε:
I am almost on the verge of giving up the King's Indian Defense because of 1 line. If not for this ONE LINE - The King's Indian Defense is a long time favorite of mine, but if I can't get an answer to the one problem, I have to chuck it.
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 O-O 6.Be2 e5 7.O-O Nc6 8.d5 Ne7 9.Ne1 Nd7 10.Be3 f5 11.f3 f4 12.Bf2 g5 and now one specific move that is a major problem for Black.
13.Rc1!!
The sacrifice with 14.c5 is a problem, and so is preparing it with 14.Nd3 or 14.b4.
13...Ng6 has been proven to be a big advantage for White.
I have yet to get 13...a6 to work
That leaves the popular 13...Rf6, but after 14.b4 Rh6 15.c5 Qe8 16.Nb5! Qh5 17.h4 Ng6 (I haven't gotten 17...gxh4 to work either) 18.g4!, it seems to be advantage White. I have an ongoing correspondence game where I'm trying out an unexplored idea at moves 20 and 21, and if it doesn't work, I might have to chuck the King's Indian because of one line, even if I only face it once every 50 times!
13...Ng6 is practically forced, and less bad than you think.
I mean it's just the literal mainline. It's like saying you're giving up the dragon because of that "one line" where white plays 13. h4.
May 16, 2020
0
#27
Uhohspaghettio1 wrote:
I mean it's just the literal mainline. It's like saying you're giving up the dragon because of that "one line" where white plays 13. h4.
Right. And not really the case with the Prins.
May 16, 2020
0
#28
Few indeed... would claim Dragon stronger than Najdorf. But opposing castle does lead to great positions.
May 16, 2020
0
#29
PowerOfEsther wrote:
The person who taught me chess openings told me to always play the dragon variation as black. According to him that was the strongest variation. I prefer Najdorf, especially when white castles on the Queen side and black on the King side, then it can get quite interesting
Strongest? Not even close. It is probably the easiest Sicilian to teach to a beginner because the plans for both sides are very simple.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CeJsLqjDSo
May 16, 2020
0
#30
As Black in the Najdorf I typically leave my King in the center for a long time, or even forego castling entirely.
I really would prefer an opening that doesnt have truckloads of theory attached to it.....as far as open sicilians go would the taimanov be the best choice for that?
jamesstack έγραψε:
I really would prefer an opening that doesnt have truckloads of theory attached to it.....as far as open sicilians go would the taimanov be the best choice for that?
The Taimanov is certainly not theory-light, nor defending some key positions is anywhere close to intuitive.
I'd rather say thet the easiest/theory-lite Sicilian variation is the 4 knights (2...e6, 4...Nf6, 5...Nc6), where Black just has to know defending a couple of mainlines (6.Nxc6, 6.Ndb5), plus a couple of not-so-harmless sidelines (6.a3 and 6.g3).
May 17, 2020
0
#33
jamesstack wrote:
I really would prefer an opening that doesnt have truckloads of theory attached to it.....as far as open sicilians go would the taimanov be the best choice for that?
You want to avoid truckloads of theory? Play the Petroff! It has some, but not truckloads!
Dragon. You learn about how positions work, not just engine generated theory. And it's fun too. Just my opinion!!! 
May 17, 2020
0
#35
Playing KID or Dragon will probably improve your play, as well as being lots of fun. But you might lose a few games...
pfren wrote:
jamesstack έγραψε:
I really would prefer an opening that doesnt have truckloads of theory attached to it.....as far as open sicilians go would the taimanov be the best choice for that?
The Taimanov is certainly not theory-light, nor defending some key positions is anywhere close to intuitive.
I'd rather say thet the easiest/theory-lite Sicilian variation is the 4 knights (2...e6, 4...Nf6, 5...Nc6), where Black just has to know defending a couple of mainlines (6.Nxc6, 6.Ndb5), plus a couple of not-so-harmless sidelines (6.a3 and 6.g3).
Okay but can I get positions complicated enough that I can play for a win if white plays an inaccurate move here or there? This may be a situation where I cant have it both ways....what I mean is if I want a complicated position where I can play for a win with black I really do have to learn something with quite a bit of theory. I guess the best choice for me may be the dragon. I have played it before although that was ages ago....a different century even. The dragon also has the benefit that I already have a book on it...although it is pretty old.
jamesstack έγραψε:
pfren wrote:
jamesstack έγραψε:
I really would prefer an opening that doesnt have truckloads of theory attached to it.....as far as open sicilians go would the taimanov be the best choice for that?
The Taimanov is certainly not theory-light, nor defending some key positions is anywhere close to intuitive.
I'd rather say thet the easiest/theory-lite Sicilian variation is the 4 knights (2...e6, 4...Nf6, 5...Nc6), where Black just has to know defending a couple of mainlines (6.Nxc6, 6.Ndb5), plus a couple of not-so-harmless sidelines (6.a3 and 6.g3).
Okay but can I get positions complicated enough that I can play for a win if white plays an inaccurate move here or there? This may be a situation where I cant have it both ways....what I mean is if I want a complicated position where I can play for a win with black I really do have to learn something with quite a bit of theory. I guess the best choice for me may be the dragon. I have played it before although that was ages ago....a different century even. The dragon also has the benefit that I already have a book on it...although it is pretty old.
The Dragon? A great choice to keep your variation memorization to a minimum... 
I also have a few old books, including this one, which is 25 years old.
It deals with only a single variation (the Soltis), of only one Dragon line (the Yugoslav attack). You can't avoid this variation if you don't want to dive in dark waters- due to the move order 91.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 Nc6 8.Qd2 0-0 9.Bc4 Bd7) 10.h4, where anything other than 10...h5 is playing with fire.
This is a small little book: 333 pages, and of course a ton of theory has been added since 1995.
But anyway, a couple of things you should know:
- Openings do not offer "winning chances". Strong and consistent play does.
- At class level, you don't need to know lines, because almost everyone will deviate at an early stage.
If you are thinking long-term, then the Dragon is a simple, but very, VERY high maintenance opening to play against strong opponents. And in the lines where white prefers 9.0-0-0 to 9.Bc4, Black's realistic winning chances are not great.
Thanks for the advice
I have another question if you dont mind. One of the reasons I want to add the sicilian to my black arsenal is so that I will have something I enjoy playing against 1. Nf3. After 1. Nf3 c5 is there somewhere else the game could go besides sicilian or KIA?
May 17, 2020
0
#39
While 1 Nf3 c5 2 e4 is of course possible, 1 Nf3 players aren’t very likely to do it. Typically, open Sicilians are just the sort of thing they’re trying to avoid. You’ll usually see 2. c4 or 2. g3.
Since the Moscow is a tad too dry a way to meet the 2...d6 Sicilians, and the Prins is completely toothless, I guess that if white wants to avoid the mainlines, then the modern handling of the 4.Qxd4 line is his best shot.