When is it time to learn the Sicilian?

I am still learning the Ruy Lopez - and having some problems being sure of myself in that. I notice so many of my opponants in a recent tournament when I am white respond with the Sicilian.

To tell you about me - my rating has tumbled to 996. I was given 1200 when I came on board. I knew in my heart I was not a 1200.

I want to learn a good white opening and a good black defence.

Any suggestions?

stwils

Italian game is good, I would suggest the scotch or even queens pawn transforming into knight systems, just keep playing. As for black, just play whites game, defenses for attacks etc etc.

For me...

Anytime I am curious about an opening, I start studying it.

A good black game would be the french or Caro-Kann, two sound defenses.

The Ruy Lopez is a difficult opening to play; you try to expand in the center, Black counters; then comes expansion on the Queenside, Black counters; then expand on the Kingside, Black counters; then you try tweaking the Qside, center, anywhere that Black can't cover.  I think that this is a little too much for you right now.  Play 3. Bc4 and get used to the Two Knights Defense or Guicco Piano, and when you can consistantly score points with them, then you're probably ready to learn the Lopez.  The Grand Prix Attack is a good choice to play against the Sicilian--straight forward without ten tons of theory to wade through.  For Black (against e4) try the Center Counter or Scandinavian Defense (1.e4, d5).  It's pretty flexible.  You can play positional chess with it, or go for speculative attacks.  I don't like the idea of moving my Queen that early, but it seems to have held up.  But try to work on open positions (1.e4, e5) before you advance into semi-open games--since they are the basis of opening theory, you need to get familiar with their concepts first, because it's the understanding of the open game that sets up the theory in all other openings.  Good luck!

Thanks, guys. I'm trying to take all this in...

Yes, the Ruy is hard - as white or black. Purdy said you had to be a seasoned player to play it well. But I have never played anything else so I think I should look into other openings and defences.

stwils

you might just improve on your overall chess skills (rather than memorizing openings...) Read Roman Pelts's Chess Course it'll get you to 1500.

dont even worry about  the opening right now just develop you pieces towards the center. you should study the endgame and tactics they are the bread and butter of chess. when you have them down then start studying the opening.

Actual openings aren't as important as opening principles.  Learn all of them first.

OG

Yes, I agree strongly with the comments about learning principles. Even if you learn an opening well and get 8-9 moves deep into it, it really won't help you that much if you then make a bad move. It's much more important to study opening principles so that you simply move as natural as possible. Try to get your pawns in the centre; try to move each piece once (or twice at most); try to castle (kingside) as soon as possible; if an open or half-open file appears try to put your rooks on that file; try to double your rooks if possible; try to invade your rooks to the 7th rank etc. This 'natural' way of playing will take you a long way and win you plenty of moves. Don't worry too much about learning openings until you are much stronger (1400+). It is worth getting a good beginner's chess book though and going through some games there and seeing how top players play - it's amzaing that if you play through enough of these games (and try to understand the moves) you'll find that you absorb knowledge about opening principles without even knowing it.

edit----

I am rated about 2000 and I don't really understand the sicilian. Against weaker players I will play 1. e4 with confidence. If they play the sicilian I reckon I can probably beat them playing naturally even though they may 'know' the opening. Against equal or stronger players I tend to play 1. d4 because playing a 1900+ player who knows the sicilian when you don't is unlikely to end well.

stwils, I find myself in an identical position to you. I'm an amateur player [rated around 1450 on online chess though it fluctuates] and I want to give myself a better chance of winning by having a solid opening repertoire for Black and White. A lot of people will tell you go learn this or go learn that, and you should both listen to them and ignore them. I found that, first of all, I needed to get a feel for what suited me, and that's quite hard, you're basically trying to find a set of moves that you feel "natural" playing and that stand up well to a given set of possible moves by the opponent. Then you see if it already has a name [very likely] and try study it. It may be tough, but I recommend that you look into the first couple of moves, then try it out on unrated blitz games and see what happens, if you go obviously wrong observe where you made mistakes, what was weak about your opening [provided it wasn't a blunder] and go back to studying the opening.

I'm still searching for a good defence as black, for some reason I shied away from teh Sicilian, and wasn't too attracted by French or Caro-Kann, so I observed in an online game I lost that my opponent had played the Scandinavian on me, now I'm trying that out for size.

Eventually after playing games and trying out openings you'll find some sort of combination that suits you better than the others, then, I think, it's the time to start studying it to a deeper level.

I have had success with the Sicilian Najdorf and the Sicilian Dragon, both lead to active games (as opposed to teh caro kann).

Study Bobby Fischer's game at chessgames.com.    he is the father of the Sicilian Najdorf, despite its namesake.

hope this helps

you should have some type of plan the opening, but nothing really indepth. agianst the sicilian here's what I would recomend. The morra smith gambit:

When is it time to learn the Sicilian?  As White, you should try to have some standard way to setup your pieces.  As Black, just forget the whole concept of the Sicilian and play the French! :P

I think the Ruy Lopez is a great opening to learn, as both white and black, I regret not leanring it sooner.

Opening are not very important at lower levels.  Opening principles are much more important.  Just try to know the basic ideas behind the opening that you wish to play.

I play Ruy Lopez and Sicilian and have for a lot of years.  Sometimes with great success & sometimes with great frustration. 

I'd recommend two books.  John Emms Starting out: the Sicilian [Everyman Press] and an oldie How to Win in the Chess Openings [Fireside Chess Library] by I.A. (Al) Horowitz [still in print but it's in descriptive notation] for the Ruy.  Read them. Don't memorize them because the other guy probably won't follow the book anyway. 

Play the openings out on a board or computer to get familiar.  Then work on the rest of the basics.  Grab part of the center, develop the pieces and get them working together.  Learn to love pawns like they were diamonds. Study tactics. 

 And have fun.  Unless you're planning on earning a living at chess, it should be fun every game not just some games.  And, don't worry about the rating!

The rating will improve as you start to think about attack & defense and the move after the one you're making based on the "what if" your opponent does this or that. 

When you no longer have to ask questions like "What is a good time to learn the sicilian?" THEN you can maybe think about learning it.

Hey Original Poster, some people avoid the Lopez because of the huge ammount of theory to study - same as the sicilian.  But for some of us wading through all the massive ammount of theory required to master those openings is part of what makes them so much fun.  You sound like one of those types of players who enjoy all the theory.  I suggest you find a good book on the Sicilian and start from there.

I try not to play the Sicilian on any day with a "y" in it.